Florian Wirtz

[justme]

If we cut out the long balls to wide areas. I'll be happy. Our front on passing leads a lot to be desired as well.. gets cut out so easily

[Insidious]

Also his style of playing so many quick short passes with intricate movement. I’m just sceptical we can do it to the requisite level to succeed in the premier league.

The thing I'd ask there (and I must point out, I'm not disagreeing entirely) is what would constitute "success" for us just now?

I'm pretty confident that Xabi could get us doing a few things next season, if he comes -

- Scoring more goals (it's wild how few we have scored after 31 games)
- Finishing 3rd/4th, thus securing Champion's League football
- Being a more entertaining watch, which isn't exactly a high bar at present
- Getting more out of Frimpong and Wirtz, which isn't a dig at either as I am a fan of both, Florian particularly

The idea of 3rd/4th may feel a disappointment after what Klopp left us with, but it would be a good platform upon which to build, particularly if it came with some of the other things mentioned and if we can continue to bring in younger talent.

We need our next winning "core" of players and whilst I believe some are at the club right now, we also need to recruit.

Alisson, Robertson, Van Dijk, Salah - we don't need to sell them all in one window and lose our DNA or anything daft, but we need to accept that we don't try to build around them at this point.

It'll likely be lads like Mamardashvili, Jacquet, Leoni Kerkez, Frimpong, Szoboszlai, Gravenberch, Wirtz, Ekitike, Ngumoha, Isak - not all of them perhaps - some won't reach the heights, some will be sold - but they're some of the lads we need to build around, bolster and bring the best out of.

I think the League is beyond us for 26/27 but with the right Manager and recruitment there could be a strong effort in 27/28 and/or 28/29 - just have to be smart about it.

[Red October]

The thing I'd ask there (and I must point out, I'm not disagreeing entirely) is what would constitute "success" for us just now?

I'm pretty confident that Xabi could get us doing a few things next season, if he comes -

- Scoring more goals (it's wild how few we have scored after 31 games)
- Finishing 3rd/4th, thus securing Champion's League football
- Being a more entertaining watch, which isn't exactly a high bar at present
- Getting more out of Frimpong and Wirtz, which isn't a dig at either as I am a fan of both, Florian particularly

The idea of 3rd/4th may feel a disappointment after what Klopp left us with, but it would be a good platform upon which to build, particularly if it came with some of the other things mentioned and if we can continue to bring in younger talent.

We need our next winning "core" of players and whilst I believe some are at the club right now, we also need to recruit.

Alisson, Robertson, Van Dijk, Salah - we don't need to sell them all in one window and lose our DNA or anything daft, but we need to accept that we don't try to build around them at this point.

It'll likely be lads like Mamardashvili, Jacquet, Leoni Kerkez, Frimpong, Szoboszlai, Gravenberch, Wirtz, Ekitike, Ngumoha, Isak - not all of them perhaps - some won't reach the heights, some will be sold - but they're some of the lads we need to build around, bolster and bring the best out of.

I think the League is beyond us for 26/27 but with the right Manager and recruitment there could be a strong effort in 27/28 and/or 28/29 - just have to be smart about it.

Yeah we've really fallen off a cliff goals-wise. From the peak of where we were with Mane Firmino and Salah all of whom contributed good figures each season and obviously Mo going above and beyond.

I would agree with you on recruitment. It would be good to keep Alisson, Robbo and Van Dijk in the squad for experience. We then have Grav, Szobo and McAllister who have experience of winning. They will know what it takes and they know we haven't been at it. We don't know what's going on behind the scenes. From dealing with management in normal jobs, they might be very unhappy with Slot but can't say much because they don't want to rock the boat. They might be quietly hoping that Alonso or someone comes in so that they can express themselves more on the pitch.

Like you, I like Wirtz. There's no doubting his skill. He's able to find space in tight areas of the pitch and his first time passing is amazing at times. He has shown that he can combine with Ekitike quite well so hopefully that's something we can build on. We should remember that many times we've had players people moan about. Luis Garcia would often lose the ball when trying little tricks and flicks much to everyone's frustration. Also, many were critical of Firmino for not contributing more goals at times under Klopp. When we look back we tend to see it with rose-coloured spectacles.

I think our signings were good last season in terms of their quality. It's just whether or not they were the right positions as we were crying out for a DM and a CB among others.

[miller0863]

The Swiss stood off him somewhat and gave him time and space, the Ghanaians were more physical and gave him less time and space to operate.

That’s where he still has to improve in the Premier League, there are many sides who will stand off and admire his work.

Hope he can up his game consistently going forward for us, not just now and again.

[Red October]

The Swiss stood off him somewhat and gave him time and space, the Ghanaians were more physical and gave him less time and space to operate.

That’s where he still has to improve in the Premier League, there are many sides who will stand off and admire his work.

Hope he can up his game consistently going forward for us, not just now and again.

Yeah there's no doubt he needs to get stronger. Wish he could call Wijnaldum and get some tips. A great thing about our midfield under Klopp was that we were hard to get the ball off. We've arguably got more finesse now but less physicality.

[Steveo]

He has already bulked up tbf to the lad - but he’s unlikely to ever be as gymnastic and elastic as Gini….

What Florian needs to do is more of what he is good at - more end product - less of this - “if people only made the runs “ malarkey - which could be put at any one’s door.

Pretty sure it will come IF the team has some belief. At present he’s arrived at one that has lost that dna. Not easy.

[miller0863]

My comment was supposed to say there “aren’t” many sides who will stand off him not there “are” …

But yeah, let’s hope he can pick it up for the run in. He needs to step up himself, never mind what everyone else is doing. Really good players take it on themselves to make things happen when things aren’t going well for the team overall

[jozza800]

My comment was supposed to say there “aren’t” many sides who will stand off him not there “are” …

But yeah, let’s hope he can pick it up for the run in. He needs to step up himself, never mind what everyone else is doing. Really good players take it on themselves to make things happen when things aren’t going well for the team overall

100% agree with some of this

What is, and has been noticeable since the start of the season, is that he's not a Gerrard like player, who's going to take a game by the scruff of the neck. Whch is absolutely fine, not everyone has that kind of mentality.

Some of the best players on the planet didn't have that mentality. Xavi and Iniesta were obviously phenomenal players but were never the kind of players that did what Stevie used to do. TO be fair they did have a certain Messi to help them out...

I think we need to stop looking at him as THAT kind of player and rather look at him as just an excellent player for the team. If the team isn't functioning properly, he's not the player to drag us through games. He'll still win us games from time to time, and contribute to winning games.

The fact that he cost £100m is the biggest consternation. Because for that kind of money you kind of expect the Gerrard-esque performances.

[miller0863]

He won the game in Switzerland by taking the game by the scruff of the neck to be fair and often did it in the Bundesliga, I just doubt he going to be able to do it in our league.

Excellent player in the right environment, I don’t think this is that.

[ianlfc]

Call me old fashioned but for £115 million, I was expecting more.