Florian Wirtz

[miller0863]

🆕🗣 Former Liverpool striker Dean Saunders believes Florian Wirtz has become "a bit of an issue" for the Reds.

Wirtz was in impressive form for Germany over the international break with two goals and two assists in the 4-3 win in Switzerland and another starring role in the 2-1 home triumph over Ghana.

The 22-year-old experienced a slow start to his Anfield career after arriving in a £116million deal from Bayer Leverkusen last summer, but has since gone on to register six goals and nine assists.

But Saunders reckons that return is insufficient to make up for what he regards the attacking midfielder interrupting the balance of the Reds' engine room.

"I thought when he scored a couple of goals, he'll come good," said the ex-Wales international. "He's involved in a lot of intricate moves around the box.

"He still looks a bit lightweight on the pitch, and if you think back to Jurgen Klopp's era when (Philippe) Coutinho used to play as the third midfielder, Liverpool used to score more goals and let more in.

"He then got rid of Coutinho and played a midfield of (James) Milner, (Jordan) Henderson, Fabinho or (Gini) Wijnaldum. He had three aggressive, not creative, workers in midfield. They decreased the amount of goals they conceded and scored more.

"Wirtz, it's a problem because if you play him on the left, he's not going to run back. He tries, but he cannot stay with his man, when you're away from home and struggling.

"𝑰𝒇 𝒚𝒐𝒖 𝒑𝒍𝒂𝒚 𝒉𝒊𝒎 𝒂𝒕 𝒏𝒖𝒎𝒃𝒆𝒓 10, 𝒉𝒆'𝒔 𝒈𝒐𝒕 𝒕𝒐 𝒑𝒓𝒐𝒅𝒖𝒄𝒆, 𝒂𝒏𝒅 𝒉𝒆'𝒔 𝒏𝒐𝒕 𝒓𝒆𝒂𝒍𝒍𝒚 𝒑𝒓𝒐𝒅𝒖𝒄𝒆𝒅. 𝑺𝒐 𝒊𝒕'𝒔 𝒂 𝒃𝒊𝒕 𝒐𝒇 𝒂𝒏 𝒊𝒔𝒔𝒖𝒆. 𝑾𝒆 𝒄𝒂𝒏 𝒔𝒆𝒆 𝒕𝒉𝒂𝒕 𝒉𝒆'𝒔 𝒕𝒂𝒍𝒆𝒏𝒕𝒆𝒅, 𝒂𝒏𝒅 𝒇𝒊𝒏𝒈𝒆𝒓𝒔 𝒄𝒓𝒐𝒔𝒔𝒆𝒅 𝒉𝒆 𝒎𝒊𝒈𝒉𝒕 𝒄𝒐𝒎𝒆 𝒈𝒐𝒐𝒅 𝒏𝒆𝒙𝒕 𝒔𝒆𝒂𝒔𝒐𝒏."

[darrenpotter]

🆕🗣 Former Liverpool striker Dean Saunders believes Florian Wirtz has become "a bit of an issue" for the Reds.

Wirtz was in impressive form for Germany over the international break with two goals and two assists in the 4-3 win in Switzerland and another starring role in the 2-1 home triumph over Ghana.

The 22-year-old experienced a slow start to his Anfield career after arriving in a £116million deal from Bayer Leverkusen last summer, but has since gone on to register six goals and nine assists.

But Saunders reckons that return is insufficient to make up for what he regards the attacking midfielder interrupting the balance of the Reds' engine room.

"I thought when he scored a couple of goals, he'll come good," said the ex-Wales international. "He's involved in a lot of intricate moves around the box.

"He still looks a bit lightweight on the pitch, and if you think back to Jurgen Klopp's era when (Philippe) Coutinho used to play as the third midfielder, Liverpool used to score more goals and let more in.

"He then got rid of Coutinho and played a midfield of (James) Milner, (Jordan) Henderson, Fabinho or (Gini) Wijnaldum. He had three aggressive, not creative, workers in midfield. They decreased the amount of goals they conceded and scored more.

"Wirtz, it's a problem because if you play him on the left, he's not going to run back. He tries, but he cannot stay with his man, when you're away from home and struggling.

"𝑰𝒇 𝒚𝒐𝒖 𝒑𝒍𝒂𝒚 𝒉𝒊𝒎 𝒂𝒕 𝒏𝒖𝒎𝒃𝒆𝒓 10, 𝒉𝒆'𝒔 𝒈𝒐𝒕 𝒕𝒐 𝒑𝒓𝒐𝒅𝒖𝒄𝒆, 𝒂𝒏𝒅 𝒉𝒆'𝒔 𝒏𝒐𝒕 𝒓𝒆𝒂𝒍𝒍𝒚 𝒑𝒓𝒐𝒅𝒖𝒄𝒆𝒅. 𝑺𝒐 𝒊𝒕'𝒔 𝒂 𝒃𝒊𝒕 𝒐𝒇 𝒂𝒏 𝒊𝒔𝒔𝒖𝒆. 𝑾𝒆 𝒄𝒂𝒏 𝒔𝒆𝒆 𝒕𝒉𝒂𝒕 𝒉𝒆'𝒔 𝒕𝒂𝒍𝒆𝒏𝒕𝒆𝒅, 𝒂𝒏𝒅 𝒇𝒊𝒏𝒈𝒆𝒓𝒔 𝒄𝒓𝒐𝒔𝒔𝒆𝒅 𝒉𝒆 𝒎𝒊𝒈𝒉𝒕 𝒄𝒐𝒎𝒆 𝒈𝒐𝒐𝒅 𝒏𝒆𝒙𝒕 𝒔𝒆𝒂𝒔𝒐𝒏."

That would be former player and current alcoholic dean saunders wouldn't listen to a word from that cunts mouth

[miller0863]

Pretty sure it was said when sober so whether he is or isn’t an alcoholic is irrelevant.
The fact he is an ex Liverpool player gives his view on a current player a credence, whereas yours…..

[justme]

I'm obviously not an ex Liverpool player (or am i hmm ) Seriously though, I have said similar on Coutinho and Wirtz having the same issues. neither in a 3 or neither wide
With playing Wirzt in a 3, leaves you very short in midfield.. and that also effects the back line. They don;t know whether to push right up to compensate for lack of player and to close the space that way Or to drop off. We've seen numerous times. teams playing slightly in between the spaces between our back line and midfield and we are all over the shop then defending.

we are much better with Grav/Macca and Dom.. Both Macca and Dom also can play 8 and drop in alongside Gravenberch to help him.I'd happily sell Wirzt and bring in someone like Wharton or the guy at Forest whose name escapes me now.
If you can get back 80 million for Wirzt, we'd be able to get either 1 then. Be a loss. but not a total loss going forward

We have enough attacking intent in Dom and Macca they get their share of goals. And we could even play Gakpo inside off the striker as well in parts of games..

We won't ditch Wirzt after 1 season though. But to me it would be the best option and get back to how we use to play. and forget the trendy number 10. It's never worked for us.

[pob]

That would be former player and current alcoholic dean saunders wouldn't listen to a word from that cunts mouth

Gave 100% on the pitch every time he put the shirt on, so couldn't care less if he's a piss head now. Everything he's said about Wirtz is spot on.

[Insidious]

"He then got rid of Coutinho and played a midfield of (James) Milner, (Jordan) Henderson, Fabinho or (Gini) Wijnaldum. He had three aggressive, not creative, workers in midfield. They decreased the amount of goals they conceded and scored more."

With a 4-4-2 Diamond you can have Wirtz as a 10 AND have your three "aggressive, not creative" midfielders if you so wish.

If only we had quality strikers for it - oh we do, in Isak and Ekitike - and we're capable of going into the market to bolster that. A "front two" with depth also solves some recruitment issues for us as it means you can probably have 4 (or 5 to be safe) forwards rather than needing 6 of them, with a returning Harvey a natural back-up for Wirtz. That also gets someone off the wage bill to help free up funds for other areas. We could for example invest in another right-back (Porro let's say) which frees up Frimpong to be depth at right-back and at right-wingback (for such games where we go 4-3-3 or 3-5-2) rather than worrying about depth if it's Frimpong and Bradley as your right-backs, given the injury record.

Plus we always having the option of slotting someone like Jones in there as that "10" if you want FOUR of those "aggressive, not creative" midfielder types in key games.

If only we had flying full-backs for the Diamond - oh we do, in Kerkez and Frimpong.

Alternatively to all of the above we could actually get some pressing out of our forward line and not leave the monstrous gap between the front players and the midfield that leaves a diminished Mac Allister having to track back across oceans of space when he can't run properly. We could even consider replacing him, get some more capacity for recovery runs and energy into the midfield via an Anderson, a Wharton or whatever your personal choice may be.

The squad has some imbalance issues but I personally don't have Wirtz as being anywhere near one of our biggest problems.

[Steveo]

I don’t know but perhaps the above is the sort of ‘rationale’ being carried out by the new team led by H’edwards - behind the scenes.

Regardless - it seems clear to me that someone involved is clueless or wilfully dismissive as to what it was that took a “bang average” squad - injected them with belief - got average players to perform at their peak -land quality players to outperform world beaters - and take us to the very top.

I do wonder what level Wirtz would be at if Jurgen was still here. I can guarantee he would look twice the player.

[miller0863]

It really would be interesting to see what Jurgen could get out of him but we haven’t got Jurgen, we are destined to be managed by mere mortals for the rest of eternity

And I have NEVER said that Wirtz is THE problem or the Main problem but he definitely IS a problem. We don’t appear to know where to play him for a start. The midfield is weaker when he starts there and I think we’re pretty much all agreed he’s ineffective on the left, he’s not a false 9 so … I dunno, can we ask the Premier League if we can play with 12?

[Steveo]

I know - I was going to mention that too,

At times it goes from the simple and totally valid claim that ‘player x hasn’t - as yet - shown the consistent levels expected’ to - well he isn’t the biggest problem we have….

Seemingly there is a genuine push from some sections to try and stymie perfectly reasoned debate on the matter and ignore what has consistently been observed - by defending against claims that haven’t been made.

[Insidious]

And I have NEVER said that Wirtz is THE problem or the Main problem but he definitely IS a problem. We don’t appear to know where to play him for a start.

I know miller There's a portion of the online narrative (moreso the Twitterati) where I see Wirtz as being the scapegoat player and I am inclined to take conversations away from that; you could perhaps call me "defensive" on Wirtz and it'd be a fair comment - I know that you personally don't subscribe to a narrative of "Wirtz out, everything fine" - just to assure you that isn't my take on your position.

As to playing him, Wirtz operated very well in the left half-space at Bayer Leverkusen so we should be getting him in there, where we can. I have said in a few threads that an aspect of our recruitment that confused me was the imbalance of our recruitment given what we already had, as we have multiple players who are capable of "standing on each other's toes" as it were, as they all do good work there - Kerkez if he underlaps, Gakpo if he cuts inside, Ekitike prefers the left half-space to the right one, Isak the sake, Mac Allister too if he drives inside to join the attack, Jones too when he plays.

That all seems "off" to me given Salah's presence in the side. A lot of excellent individual players, but the blend is wrong - and if we have committed on Wirtz, we should be set up to leave him the appropriate room to operate, or cutting losses in him - the latter of which I feel would absolutely be the wrong call.