Florian Wirtz

[CCTV]

So long as he's playing well for Germany Wirtz's value won't drop by much if at all. With that being case it might be worth at least giving him a bit more time under a new manager to see what he's capable of.

1st season at a new club.

1st season in a new league.

A shocking season for LFC.

Goals or Assists per minute on par with those already used to the league.

And hes shown more mental strength in his 1st season than many of the senior leaders in our squad.

[CCTV]

By Goals & Assists per minute....

I showed Suarez, Rush & Salah are all better attackers than Gakpo & Diaz.
By this metric Gakpo was ahead of Diaz.

You proposed that win ratio was more important than Goals and assists per minute....
This leads to Diaz being a better attacker than Gakpo, and Rush, Suarez & Salah.

Think those inferences show my metric is the better metric in judging an attackers quality.

Your argument and metric suggests Diaz is a better attacker than Gakpo, Suarez, Salah & Rush.

My method shows Suarez, Salah & Rush are better attackers than both Gakpo & Diaz.

Yet you laugh at my proposal

And just in case Steveo misses this reply

[Steveo]

😂

What is this absolute nonsense about 'my method' vs 'your method'? This isn't a lab experiment - it’s football.

You’re hiding behind contrived metrics because they’re the only way to support your bizarre Gakpo agenda. To suggest that a team win ratio I made about the same players in the same team - makes Luis Díaz a 'better attacker' than Suárez, Salah, or Rush is genuinely embarrassing. It’s the hallmark of someone who spends more time looking at columns on a screen than actually watching the game.

Only someone who has never set foot in Anfield would try to compare win ratios across different eras. Comparing a Rodgers side to a Klopp side using that metric is statistically illiterate—one team was a transitional work-in-progress, the other was a refined winning machine.

The 'eye test' isn't just a phrase…it’s how you actually judge an attacker's quality, movement, and individual brilliance. Suárez is streets ahead of everyone on that list, and you don't need a proprietary method to see it.

You’re tying yourself in knots trying to backtrack on your Gakpo claims. Give it a rest and actually watch a match for once.

[miller0863]

I have been going to Anfield since the 70/71 season. I have eyes. I don’t need “metrics” to give me an opinion on a player when I have watched every single minute he has played for my club.

[jinky]

Rush. My personal number 1 player of all time. First line of defence and he could score too.

[justme]

We have never succeeded with a number 10. Firmino was classed as a false 9 , Still meant we had 3 midfielders behind him

I can understand we wanted someone to break down deep defenders. so had a tricky player in there. But the thing is.. you can't get away with it if the ball breaks off.. you're short in midfield by one.
You can't get your full backs forward like you'd want too. because the extra midfielder can't cover that side.

Teams will also sit deep against us. But i'd rather we had a bit more protection in midfield and be more patient.. Try not to concede as many goals. we have let in 42 goals already.. thats 10 to many in my book. we would have at least 10 more points
with a better defensive play.. The last minute goal against Fulham springs to mind. and others.

[CCTV]

😂

What is this absolute nonsense about 'my method' vs 'your method'? This isn't a lab experiment - it’s football.

You’re hiding behind contrived metrics because they’re the only way to support your bizarre Gakpo agenda. To suggest that a team win ratio I made about the same players in the same team - makes Luis Díaz a 'better attacker' than Suárez, Salah, or Rush is genuinely embarrassing. It’s the hallmark of someone who spends more time looking at columns on a screen than actually watching the game.

Only someone who has never set foot in Anfield would try to compare win ratios across different eras. Comparing a Rodgers side to a Klopp side using that metric is statistically illiterate—one team was a transitional work-in-progress, the other was a refined winning machine.

The 'eye test' isn't just a phrase…it’s how you actually judge an attacker's quality, movement, and individual brilliance. Suárez is streets ahead of everyone on that list, and you don't need a proprietary method to see it.

You’re tying yourself in knots trying to backtrack on your Gakpo claims. Give it a rest and actually watch a match for once.

I have been going to Anfield since the 70/71 season. I have eyes. I don’t need “metrics” to give me an opinion on a player when I have watched every single minute he has played for my club.

Echo The Anfield Front

Goals or Assists per minute are a better metric than your then proposed win ratio Steveo.
And they show a level from Wirtz comparable with Foden, Eze, Rogers, Sobozla & Palmer in this thread.


On the stats that time, ignoring all other factors, positions, eras, sides played in, and just 2 stats.....

We have

My goals or assists per minute stats

Goals or Assists per minute at LFC

1) Salah 94.2 minutes

2) Suarez 100.2 minutes

3) Rush 125.9 minutes

4) Gakpo 150.2 minutes

5) Diaz 156.3 minutes


CCTVs stat driven front 3 for LFC

Suarez Rush Salah


Or


Your then proposed better metric... player win ratios

Win ratio at LFC

1) Diaz 67.57%

2) Salah 63.24%

3) Gakpo*59.2%

4) Rush*54.7%

5) Suarez 50.38%


Steveos stat driven front 3 for LFC

Gakpo Diaz Salah


One can use one's eyes to decide which metric is the better measure

And in case you need to go to specsavers, it's
Suarez Rush Salah


And looking at the Klopp era ONLY

Win ratio suggests Diaz is better than Salah, in the same manner it suggests Diaz is better than Gakpo.

Whereas goals and assists say Salah is miles better than both.


If Gakpo plays another five 90 minute matches this season,
and doesn't score or assist in those 5 games he'd drop below Diaz at LFC on my metric.

If Salah plays the six remaining 90 minute games this season
and gets no goals or assists in those 6 games then his level would drop to.....

Per 95.6 minutes & still miles better than both Gakpo & Diaz

[Steveo]

There it is again - shifting the goalposts the moment the logic fails.

I used the win ratio to compare Díaz and Gakpo because they played a similar volume of games (148 vs 128) in the same team, under the same conditions. It was a simple way to show a ‘data analyst’ that even in his own RIDICULOUS language, numbers can also prove Díaz is the far more vital player. Anyone who actually attends games - and sees the players on the pitch in the flesh already knew that - here the data just caught up to the eye test.

But comparing Salah to Díaz? That is yet more world-class statistical illiteracy. You are excelling in this.

Salah:437 games 35,326 mins

Díaz: 110 games 8,567 mins

You are trying to compare a decade-long legacy to a fraction of the sample size. It’s a massive whopper, even for you. Put the calculator down and try watching the match for once. 🧐

[Insidious]

So long as he's playing well for Germany Wirtz's value won't drop by much if at all. With that being case it might be worth at least giving him a bit more time under a new manager to see what he's capable of.

He creates chances aplenty. Understandably people will debate the quality of those chances, but still good that they're occuring.

Indeed, in terms of open play chances created from open-play in debut Premier League season for Liverpool, the lost looks as follows -

62 - Dirk Kuyt (2006/07)
53 - Mo Salah (2017/18)
52 - Jermaine Pennant (2006/07)
50 - Florian Wirtz (2025/26)

He’s actually just the second player to create 50+ chances from open play in the Premier League at all this season - Bruno Fernandes is flying on that metric with 73 at present.

I think what everyone wants to see from him now are -

- More clear-cut, high-quality chances like perfect through-balls. This will hopefully improve if the movement and pace of the attackers ahead of him improves, but he of course needs to do some of this work himself.

- Giving the ball away a little less. He is inclined to be high-risk in an attempt to get someone into an attacking position, so when he gets it wrong, we lose the ball and are often countered on.

- Goals. I'd been hoping he would get 10 or so League goals this season to do his bit with chipping in to our total tally and he has fallen short there.

Absolutely a player there though and he would probably be bottom of my "sell" list. We've seen managers fail to get the best out of players before (look at Firmino under Rodgers v under Slot) and I hope in time we are getting to see someone else at the helm continue to help Florian on his trajectory.

He'll also start next season a bit bulkier, which will help him.

[Ravo19]

My issue with wirtz comes down to formation as he's a 10,not physical enough as a 8.
With isak being a 9 and better suited through the middle in a front 3 not front 2,for wirtz to work we have to make the 4 2 3 1 work.