Match Thread: Liverpool v Crystal Palace

[Steveo]

Liverpool never been the same since Wijnaldum left. Last season good numbers but never felt like we were that great. Wijnaldum tirelessworker and never got injured.

Also with Mane all those who slated him you will see that we are not the same without him and that he was actually our main threat and opened up the game when we needed a lift.

Darwin Nunez Benfica robbed us big time. He will score goals but he is not a good player

Oh we miss Gini 100% and we will miss Mané for sure, I can’t believe anyone doesn’t know this. But Mané had been poor out wide for a long long time. Said so in his own words. Apart from the odd flash of brilliance - he was having another stinker of a season last term until after returning as a winner of the AFCON. He had all but lost his place to Diaz remember - who was on a totally different level - people forget. Mané found a great spot through the middle, and 100% we will miss him - but he wanted out. He wanted the big bucks and knew he wasn’t going to challenge Diaz out wide. Think he wanted an easier life in a much easier league. Can’t blame him.

So sad he isn’t here but what choice did we have? We acted at least - With Gini we really ballsed up. Lost a star man (so underrated) and didn’t even try to replace.


Another thing…. And many don’t stop to think about it…we will miss Origi. The guy might not have got that much game time.. but boy when he did. The impact. Knowing he was there. I will really miss Divock. Think Klopp was genuinely cut up about his departure.

Along with Minamino leaving - it has to be said - we have lost far more than we have gained this summer sadly.

[jozza800]

That's an interesting statement. I've definitely seen a change in some of our fanbase these last few years. Not quite the "entitlement" that I associate with a certain generation of Man United fans, but there are definitely toys thrown out of the pram a bit more when we don't win, particularly since picking that 19th title up.
.

I dont think it's entitlement to be fair.

I just think the level of achievment\performance over the last few years has been massively under appreciated. Expecting 95pts every season to win the league or appearing in 3 European Cup finals have all been normalised.

Look at the complaints about our finishing! Despite the fact we scored nearly 150 goals last season.

One of the more laughable comments was that we we're only in the title race because we only dropped 4 points since Christmas. Like it was par for the course...

I genuinly believe some people would piss and moan if we finished runners up with 111pts on goal difference!

Look at the negitivity this morning. Calling the title after 2 games. Now that is impressive!

Then most of our players get massive criticism game in game out. I listed a load of players on the 'Hopes/Expectations' thread half in jest but it's not miles off. We're treating them like they're fluking their way through games. They've been doing this for nearly 5 years.

I dont know if it's the entire fan base or just on here, but i've been part of this forum for 20 years and as one of the longest serving members still here it's getting to the point where you dont even need to read the comments, you just know what is coming.

This place can be pretty depressing at times.

And before anyone starts, I do think we need a midfielder (or two...).

[Nineteenx]

Thing is Nineteen players get older so Gini/Hendo cant press like they could at 26-27 each week.

You have to addapt otherwise you get found out you cant play the same way every season that is obvious....City have changed too by signing Haaland.

Reality is this and I have said it for a few years now we have done well to compete and win the title but over a long period 7-10 years we just wont keep up with oil money.

Its going to be long hard season for everyone not just us we might be better off blooding youngsters this season and sort of write it off.

Simple recruitment solution was always to look to sign player who could offer the functional ability and pressing and counter pressing ability of Gini and Hendo who had equal to Hendo's all round distribution or better

Our midfield recruitment has been absolutely fucking shite, wrong type of players, too much faith in players who have never delivered what they were bought to or in Ox's case, have never done so after serious injury as he was good first season

That Oxlade, Keita, Fab and Thiago are still here is a fucking joke, Fab was a fucking disaster yesterday, for all the reasons I have frequently pointed out, he is NOT and never will be a midfielder, he just doesn't read it like a midfielder does, see who's the danger who he needs to be close to and know when to jockey them and hold them up so other players can get back in, all he had to do yesterday was hold Eze up

Buy a proper No6, who can play all the types of passes that Hendo showed are the best variety of passes to make the play for our team and system in 9-20 and shows every time he actually gets a start at No6 where he is still our best option even though he's not a fast or agile

Buy a LCM controller who can offer the same support to Virgil defensively and to Robbo and to allow Robbo or Tsimikas to bomb forward more in support of Diaz, to make those brilliantly timed runs ahead pf the LCM that were such a big part of the Robbo/Mane partnership at its best in 18-20 - but buy one who can pass the ball medium to long better than Gini could left to right switches to release Trent or Mo in space, attempted balls in behind

And buy players who have excellent appearance records

That's all it needed and Jurgen's made an almighty royal fuck up of it, fancy Dan overplaying sick note Thiago to replace Gini and persisting with Fab at No6 being the biggest of them

The not having a mid to support Robbo as Gini did to try and let Robbo and Tsimikas begin to forge the same kind of prolific partnership and understanding with Diaz as Robbo and Mane had is pissing me right off, we don't even have the switch on for Trent to play most of the time anymore

Trent to Mane with Robbo making the run ahead of Gini for to be in support for it to be laid off to him or for Trent to pick Robbo's run instead of Mane's is another thing completely and entirely gone

[jozza800]

Another thing…. And many don’t stop to think about it…we will miss Origi. The guy might not have got that much game time.. but boy when he did. The impact. Knowing he was there. I will really miss Divock. Think Klopp was genuinely cut up about his departure.

Well you say that but Klopp wouldn't play him. I personally think Origi has been treated pretty poorly over the last few years. His ability and performances warranted far more game time.

Even before signing Nunez, i'd have persoanlly made Origi the main man and spent the Nunez money on midfield.

[Nineteenx]

We need to stop blaming FSG for Jurgen's fuck ups in midfield and accept that Jurgen has made fuck ups in midfield recruitment and how he managed the players that were his best and disrespected them for an ideal, when what he has worked devastatingly effectively = He broke his own brilliantly working model at its very height from 19-20 and signed the wrong players and refused to ever concede any of his midfield signings had been poor of the wrong one, he did that, not FSG

We'd have won another league title and Champions League by now if he'd backed giving Gini a pay rise and never entertained himself in his private fantasy of all fur coat and no knickers

[Insidious]

Well lads, the party is over, we've had the golden years, this is sadly Jurgen Souness Klopp we're witnessing, it is going to be a scrap for top four this season and a tough one and we are going to struggle for consistency

Jurgen has been absolutely brilliant, but he's made an unholy cock up of the supposed evolution, people can slate FSG all they like, the midfield has been Jurgen's doing and we haven't signed a top quality midfielder who has done what the team needed since Gini

I think suggesting we're at a "Jürgen Souness Klopp" stage is pretty hyperbolic to be honest.

In the centre-back disaster season of 20/21 we still managed to acquire Champion's League football and finish third, which we then followed up by getting two Cups, a final in the Champion's League and taking the League to the final day.

Klopp's worst run was in 2014/15 at Dortmund, as the side struggled to adjust to the loss of Lewandowski. Of the first 19 League matches, they lost 11 times - so just over half-way through the season they were in the relegation zone (34-game season in Bundesliga) but found excellent form to finish in 7th spot - ultimately Dortmund and Klopp parted ways and I am sure there's a Hell of a lot of Dortmund fans that wish they'd held onto him, or had him back after a sabbatical or something - particularly when they've witnessed what he's done for us.

Plenty of our fans are panicking because he know just how many points that Man City are capable of hoovering up, with us having missed out on 4 of the available 6 points to us, with lads in some corners assuming that Man City will get a 95-100 points finish, making all points dropped a nightmare. But absolutely nobody knows what this season with a World Cup plonked in the middle is going to be like, particularly if any side's star players get injured - that could disastrously happen to us, or could happen to Man City - or neither - or both simultaneously.

As to the potential points dropped, yes - 4 are gone. Folks assume Man City will only drop 14-20 points. The League champions dropped 21 last season, could have afforded to drop 39 the season before to still win win and we could have afforded to drop 32 when we won it. Most sides are an unlucky injury spell away from a blip - we should just keep trying and see where it takes us.

Maybe we'll lose our next 8 games. Maybe we'll win our next 8. Most likely it will be a mixed bag.

Maybe we accrue more injuries. Maybe in 4 weeks time everyone in the squad (except Ox) is fit and ready to go.

But panic buttons and "Jürgen Souness Klopp" seem premature. Unless he resigns, we have this season and THREE more of Jürgen. If this is to be a bit of an ugly duckling season to help set us up for the next 3 years then so be it - but with 36 League games left there is absolutely no need to panic. Last season everyone had Chelsea nailed on for winning the League pretty early and they failed to do so. Quite a way into the season people had Everton down as relegation certs and they didn't fall.

We traditionally have a good second half to a season under Jürgen. Let's find ways to grind out wins as quickly as possible and re-assess closer to the World Cup, then see who comes back fit afterwards and go again. Some of our most important lads like Matip and Salah for example won't be going at all, whilst other will travel but not play - or only play 3-4 games - there will be benefits to that too.

Man United next. Try to get a win. Go again irrespective of the outcome. It's a process.

[LEGS]

Simple recruitment solution was always to look to sign player who could offer the functional ability and pressing and counter pressing ability of Gini and Hendo who had equal to Hendo's all round distribution or better

Our midfield recruitment has been absolutely fucking shite, wrong type of players, too much faith in players who have never delivered what they were bought to or in Ox's case, have never done so after serious injury as he was good first season

That Oxlade, Keita, Fab and Thiago are still here is a fucking joke, Fab was a fucking disaster yesterday, for all the reasons I have frequently pointed out, he is NOT and never will be a midfielder, he just doesn't read it like a midfielder does, see who's the danger who he needs to be close to and know when to jockey them and hold them up so other players can get back in, all he had to do yesterday was hold Eze up

Buy a proper No6, who can play all the types of passes that Hendo showed are the best variety of passes to make the play for our team and system in 9-20 and shows every time he actually gets a start at No6 where he is still our best option even though he's not a fast or agile

Buy a LCM controller who can offer the same support to Virgil defensively and to Robbo and to allow Robbo or Tsimikas to bomb forward more in support of Diaz, to make those brilliantly timed runs ahead pf the LCM that were such a big part of the Robbo/Mane partnership at its best in 18-20 - but buy one who can pass the ball medium to long better than Gini could left to right switches to release Trent or Mo in space, attempted balls in behind

And buy players who have excellent appearance records

That's all it needed and Jurgen's made an almighty royal fuck up of it, fancy Dan overplaying sick note Thiago to replace Gini and persisting with Fab at No6 being the biggest of them

The not having a mid to support Robbo as Gini did to try and let Robbo and Tsimikas begin to forge the same kind of prolific partnership and understanding with Diaz as Robbo and Mane had is pissing me right off, we don't even have the switch on for Trent to play most of the time anymore

Trent to Mane with Robbo making the run ahead of Gini for to be in support for it to be laid off to him or for Trent to pick Robbo's run instead of Mane's is another thing completely and entirely gone

Thiago does have a record of injuries true but I believe Keita did have a good record in Germany injury wise.

Thiago is also our best midfielder he is under rated defensively he is very good you dont play for Spain, Barca, Bayern and us if you are a useless "fancy dan".

It is going to get harder now as fees for players are stupid I saw you rate Gallagher yes he is talented but you just know Chelsea will want £60m for him.

[Nineteenx]

I think suggesting we're at a "Jürgen Souness Klopp" stage is pretty hyperbolic to be honest

I don't, it started in 19-20 and has been getting progressively worse, the Souness bit is simply the needless fucking off of things that are working and still working brilliantly, ditching the players that made them work and bringing in other players with different skills for some kind of managers personal fantasy that just do not work as well or compliment all the other players as well or facilitate them playing at their best

19-20 when Fab was out is the best I have seen any Liverpool side play in the era after the no back pass rule came into effect by a country mile, it is the best I have seen Jurgen's system played by a country mile and that having been demonstrated there was still room for huge improvement building on all the things that made his system work better than ever, he tore that up and threw the baby out with the bath water, and it's not a knee jerk, I have, much to everyone's else's 'everything's rosy in the garden we're not sliding backwards at all' annoyance been pointing this out since 19-20 and the Fabinho straight back in at No6 debacle - That debacle was the equivalent of if Redknapp having moved Bale to LFWD because of an injury to Krancjaar and having seen the results, had then dropped Bale or moved him back to LB to bring Krancjaar back in, that's the incredible scale of the fuck up that move was

[ianlfc]

2 games in and "Jurgen Souness Klopp"
Jesus wept.

[Nineteenx]

Thiago does have a record of injuries true but I believe Keita did have a good record in Germany injury wise.

Thiago is also our best midfielder he is under rated defensively he is very good you dont play for Spain, Barca, Bayern and us if you are a useless "fancy dan".

It is going to get harder now as fees for players are stupid I saw you rate Gallagher yes he is talented but you just know Chelsea will want £60m for him.

He's a great player in his own right, but he doesn't compliment our other players and what we had, he's not our best midfielder at all for that reason, because it's a team game and he doesn't facilitate the team playing as well as it can or anywhere approaching as well as it did at its best under Jurgen - He overplays all the time and that's become infectious and it's causing and has already cause a considerable loss in our ability to be devastatingly direct - His switches are shit, too whippy, in the air too long, player on top of the recipient by the time they arrive meaning they have to go backwards every fucking time -

That was the first time I ever lost my shit with Jurgen watching a game, Thiago played one such absolutely pointless and useless switch last season, and the technique of it and everything looked sexy if you have a focus on things being aesthetically pleasing rather than whether they're practically better or more useful than another thing that is

As ever, it led to absolutely nothing and wasn't nearly as effective as the exact same type of ball, but more quickly up and down and with the appropriate trajectory to release the recipient in behind or reaching them quicker so they receive it in time and space to go forward with it or pass it forward as Hendo played so expertly from No6 in 19-20 and the camera pans to Jurgen sporting the same kind of giddy girly stupid grin I imagine Steveo does everytime Thiago plays a drastically less effective pass than the Captain he never appreciated played with such unerring consistency game in game out in 19-20 -

And for me I'm just like for fucks sake, you moved a player who played passes far less sexy looking than that but that were far more devastatingly effective game in game out who has been the best and only true if accidental playmaker this team has ever had from his best position to replace him with fucking Fabinho, who's not even a midfielder and you're having a wankfest over that fucking pass? It's then you know you're teams heading in the wrong direction and your manager is entering Souness personal ideal territory rather than focusing on what works best for what he has