Florian Wirtz

[Kev0909]

Diaz wanted out.. we wanted Nunez out. so both needed replacing.. I think Ekitike can play off the left..we have 4 forwards.. and Wirtz makes a 5th more of 10.. but likes been mentioned. by me and some others..have doubts he can play that role.. Obviously we can see teams will defend deeper against us this season. its happened in quite a few games already.
So maybe Wirtz was brought to unlock the defence.. I still have huge hope for him. once he gets into the grove.. Hes only played an handful of games anyway..

Doens't matter if he can fill in on the left.....

people have been saying we have no width... that's not going to help

Still need a top wide player, as well as the other positions

Gakpo stinks the place out currently, so does salah

we can't attack very well currently and we can't defend at all of course we was going to get found out v palace, I just hope we don't drift away by time next 5 games is over..... needs improvement i'd start robbo more in the tough games.

[Red October]

We gave Nunez 3 years. Surely we can afford Wirtz at least 3 months, lol...

+1

[RedMagic]

The problem with playing Wirtz is that his inclusion is currently unbalancing the rest of team. Until Saturday we managed to get away with that lack of balance, but that game on its own needs to be a serious wake up call to Slott that some difficult decisions need to be made in regards to who plays, when they play, and where they play. Those tough decisions should cover all of our players including the likes of Salah.

If Slott is intent on playing a number ten, he needs to either make sure that player can do his bit both on and off the ball, or he needs to play two top quality, deeper lying midfielders who will offset some of the deficiencies those in front of them may have.

[jozza800]

There was some decent analysis from Carra last night. Wirtz isn't getting nearly as much as the ball as he did at Leverkusen.

As I mentioned previously if we're going to play with him as the 10 then we need to play like it. None of this 8 1/2 / semi-left winger stuff.

Macca and Grav are both good enough to be in a two behind him.

It feels as if Arne wants them all to be more dynamic, which isn't helping us when we lose the ball. The amount of times the two 'holding' midfielders are ahead of the ball when we lose it is frightening! Even Endo was caught in the oppo's pen area when Bournemouth scored on their breakaway.

[Steveo]

Was the club expecting this..?

If so is Germany the place to go shopping?? If it happens tho - it would be something else. This is what I call control.. My nerves in games would be far less were to finally get this level.

[justme]

everything is to soft from him.. always wants to pat balls at half pace..

[jozza800]

His weight of pass is excellent.

[justme]

You see 3 good passes and ignore the MANY times hes tried to pass and its been intercepted.

[miller0863]

Jeez.

£100m and £200k a week for what is being served up is bad enough but it was on a 10 which WE DID NOT NEED!!!

We don’t play with a 10, we haven’t won anything with a 10, so WHY ffs???

[Kev0909]

Not his fault but yeah money spent on CDM/CB would've been better instead of spunking money for fun and not resolving what we still needed, not to mention a diaz replacement, gakpo isn't the one

[jozza800]

Not ignoring anything. Just pointing out some of the positives from a shit show from start to finish.

I try not to throw the whole team out with the bath water after a few poor performances.

And I'm certainly not going to write-off a player after 8 games.

I've seen enough in Wirz to see he's got bags of ability.

[teesred]

He's the main issue in the side I think. Obviously there's a few new players but he's compromised our midfield and he's done absolutely fuck all in terms of anything else.
Not sure he's a player who's going to be a success at Liverpool. Hope I'm wrong.

[eggy81]

Not ignoring anything. Just pointing out some of the positives from a shit show from start to finish.

I try not to throw the whole team out with the bath water after a few poor performances.

And I'm certainly not going to write-off a player after 8 games.

I've seen enough in Wirz to see he's got bags of ability.

It’s a big ask for him too . He’s basically been tasked with coming in and being the creative fulcrum of a team that’s lost taa and Diaz and changed shape to allow more creativity through the middle. Seems to be starving Salah of the type of ball he needs too. Lots of kinks to be ironed out.

[CCTV]

I've still got no worries about his abilty as a player. You can see it in his touch and technical play.

Finding how to get the best out of him should be Slot and Co's priority over the next few weeks.

1) However, I did say end of last season that we should have thrown Palace £150m - £180m for Eze, Guehi and Wharton...

Those saying evolution not revolution, what would that have looked like?

Other than Diaz, arguably Trent and obviously Diogo (although there were plenty saying he was pretty much done before his untimely death) the others that were shipped out were all derided and deemed replaceable at various points of the season. Robbo, Tsimi, Quansah, Elliot, Nunez and Diogo all came in for heavy criticism and have all been replaced.

Fair assessment of Wirtz & post, though the bolded part applies least to me.
#f$gShill

1) think we all had other ideas to some degree, the areas of turnover has surprised us all.

The fullbacks being replaced was expected.
I gave both Jota & Nunez 7/10s for last season. I'd have moved on Jota, but expected Nunez to leave as Slot wasn't picking him.
The thing for most of us, we'd have gone:
Isak/Alvarez for Nunez, Zubi/Zubi2.0 & Guehi in addition to the fullbacks.
Isak, Ekitike & Wirtz certainly more attacking additions than most expected, sadly.

In terms of what Slot has at his disposal this season, imo he has more 1st team players as he sees it.

Alisson
Frimps Konate VVD Kerkez Robbo
Grav MacA Wirtz Sobozla Jones
Salah Isak Ekitike Gakpo

15 this year
&
Last years 12

Alisson
Trent Konate VVD Robbo
Grav MacA Sobozla Jones
Salah Diaz Gakpo

In terms of b-teams on paper, including * some 1st teamers ommited from best 11s

This year it's

Giorgi
Bradley Leoni Gomez Robbo*
Endo Jones*
Chiesa Sobozla* Rio
Ekitike*

Last year it was

Kelleher
Bradley Quansah Gomez Tsimi
Endo Jones*
Chiesa Elliott Jota
Nunez

Think thats a fair summary of the changes.

A 12 man 1st team, to a 15 man 1st team this season.

[Insidious]

Not ignoring anything. Just pointing out some of the positives from a shit show from start to finish.

I try not to throw the whole team out with the bath water after a few poor performances.

And I'm certainly not going to write-off a player after 8 games.

I've seen enough in Wirz to see he's got bags of ability.

On briefly - doubt I'll be around much this Autumn, though it depends.

Just a quick agreement/acknowledgement of your post.

Wirtz is a month younger than Elliott, who is still developing. We've bought Florian because he has the potential to be a brilliant player over the course of 5 seasons - and maybe more.

- He could fail.
- He could be poor-to-average for 18 months then excellent for 42 months.
- He could turn it around quickly.
- He could go up a level when he bulks up.

Nobody knows how it will pan out, but I agree that writing him off is a madness. Anyone who watched him last season will know his mind works lightning-fast, to a point where some of our top players may not have yet adjusted to his vision. He'll find things that others won't.

Now - that works both ways - if players aren't understanding what he's at, he needs to adjust just as much as they do.

But his quality? Unquestionable. He did plenty "wrong" tonight in terms of passes that were telegraphed by the opposition, giving it away etc - but this was balanced out by him forcing a top save from the keeper, creating the chance for Isak and the excellent ball that Bradley needs to do better with (the header) so he could easily have had an assist and a goal, or at least an assist.

This blend of doing getting some quality stuff right while getting basic stuff wrong is exactly the sort of criticism (albeit a different role/position) we would often have of Trent - but we were happy to back him for multiple seasons.

We might not be a title-winning side this year - we don't know yet (time will tell) but a number of the players we have invested in, Wirtz included, are well below what we'd traditionally call their "peak" age and have been acquired with growth and succession in mind. I think most would happily accept a little bit of short-term teething trouble if it yielded mid-to-long-term success for us and lads like Kerkez, Frimpong, Wirtz and Ekitike are all capable of doing great things for us - but it may take time.

As far as "learning curve" matches go, tonight was as good a match you can lose as any (philosophically speaking) in that we haven't been knocked out of a Tournament, haven't lost ground on a League rival and remain level on points with a side that is 6th in this questionably formatted League phase of a bloated European comp. Coming first (giggity) didn't serve us all that well last season, so I'd rather see signs of imbalance here than, well, the Chelsea and Man United games.

Right - Cheese and Hobgoblin won't consume themselves. Might see you lads in a week or three.

Take care.