Florian Wirtz

[justme]

If we cut out the long balls to wide areas. I'll be happy. Our front on passing leads a lot to be desired as well.. gets cut out so easily

[Insidious]

Also his style of playing so many quick short passes with intricate movement. I’m just sceptical we can do it to the requisite level to succeed in the premier league.

The thing I'd ask there (and I must point out, I'm not disagreeing entirely) is what would constitute "success" for us just now?

I'm pretty confident that Xabi could get us doing a few things next season, if he comes -

- Scoring more goals (it's wild how few we have scored after 31 games)
- Finishing 3rd/4th, thus securing Champion's League football
- Being a more entertaining watch, which isn't exactly a high bar at present
- Getting more out of Frimpong and Wirtz, which isn't a dig at either as I am a fan of both, Florian particularly

The idea of 3rd/4th may feel a disappointment after what Klopp left us with, but it would be a good platform upon which to build, particularly if it came with some of the other things mentioned and if we can continue to bring in younger talent.

We need our next winning "core" of players and whilst I believe some are at the club right now, we also need to recruit.

Alisson, Robertson, Van Dijk, Salah - we don't need to sell them all in one window and lose our DNA or anything daft, but we need to accept that we don't try to build around them at this point.

It'll likely be lads like Mamardashvili, Jacquet, Leoni Kerkez, Frimpong, Szoboszlai, Gravenberch, Wirtz, Ekitike, Ngumoha, Isak - not all of them perhaps - some won't reach the heights, some will be sold - but they're some of the lads we need to build around, bolster and bring the best out of.

I think the League is beyond us for 26/27 but with the right Manager and recruitment there could be a strong effort in 27/28 and/or 28/29 - just have to be smart about it.

[Red October]

The thing I'd ask there (and I must point out, I'm not disagreeing entirely) is what would constitute "success" for us just now?

I'm pretty confident that Xabi could get us doing a few things next season, if he comes -

- Scoring more goals (it's wild how few we have scored after 31 games)
- Finishing 3rd/4th, thus securing Champion's League football
- Being a more entertaining watch, which isn't exactly a high bar at present
- Getting more out of Frimpong and Wirtz, which isn't a dig at either as I am a fan of both, Florian particularly

The idea of 3rd/4th may feel a disappointment after what Klopp left us with, but it would be a good platform upon which to build, particularly if it came with some of the other things mentioned and if we can continue to bring in younger talent.

We need our next winning "core" of players and whilst I believe some are at the club right now, we also need to recruit.

Alisson, Robertson, Van Dijk, Salah - we don't need to sell them all in one window and lose our DNA or anything daft, but we need to accept that we don't try to build around them at this point.

It'll likely be lads like Mamardashvili, Jacquet, Leoni Kerkez, Frimpong, Szoboszlai, Gravenberch, Wirtz, Ekitike, Ngumoha, Isak - not all of them perhaps - some won't reach the heights, some will be sold - but they're some of the lads we need to build around, bolster and bring the best out of.

I think the League is beyond us for 26/27 but with the right Manager and recruitment there could be a strong effort in 27/28 and/or 28/29 - just have to be smart about it.

Yeah we've really fallen off a cliff goals-wise. From the peak of where we were with Mane Firmino and Salah all of whom contributed good figures each season and obviously Mo going above and beyond.

I would agree with you on recruitment. It would be good to keep Alisson, Robbo and Van Dijk in the squad for experience. We then have Grav, Szobo and McAllister who have experience of winning. They will know what it takes and they know we haven't been at it. We don't know what's going on behind the scenes. From dealing with management in normal jobs, they might be very unhappy with Slot but can't say much because they don't want to rock the boat. They might be quietly hoping that Alonso or someone comes in so that they can express themselves more on the pitch.

Like you, I like Wirtz. There's no doubting his skill. He's able to find space in tight areas of the pitch and his first time passing is amazing at times. He has shown that he can combine with Ekitike quite well so hopefully that's something we can build on. We should remember that many times we've had players people moan about. Luis Garcia would often lose the ball when trying little tricks and flicks much to everyone's frustration. Also, many were critical of Firmino for not contributing more goals at times under Klopp. When we look back we tend to see it with rose-coloured spectacles.

I think our signings were good last season in terms of their quality. It's just whether or not they were the right positions as we were crying out for a DM and a CB among others.

[miller0863]

The Swiss stood off him somewhat and gave him time and space, the Ghanaians were more physical and gave him less time and space to operate.

That’s where he still has to improve in the Premier League, there are many sides who will stand off and admire his work.

Hope he can up his game consistently going forward for us, not just now and again.

[Red October]

The Swiss stood off him somewhat and gave him time and space, the Ghanaians were more physical and gave him less time and space to operate.

That’s where he still has to improve in the Premier League, there are many sides who will stand off and admire his work.

Hope he can up his game consistently going forward for us, not just now and again.

Yeah there's no doubt he needs to get stronger. Wish he could call Wijnaldum and get some tips. A great thing about our midfield under Klopp was that we were hard to get the ball off. We've arguably got more finesse now but less physicality.

[Steveo]

He has already bulked up tbf to the lad - but he’s unlikely to ever be as gymnastic and elastic as Gini….

What Florian needs to do is more of what he is good at - more end product - less of this - “if people only made the runs “ malarkey - which could be put at any one’s door.

Pretty sure it will come IF the team has some belief. At present he’s arrived at one that has lost that dna. Not easy.

[miller0863]

My comment was supposed to say there “aren’t” many sides who will stand off him not there “are” …

But yeah, let’s hope he can pick it up for the run in. He needs to step up himself, never mind what everyone else is doing. Really good players take it on themselves to make things happen when things aren’t going well for the team overall

[jozza800]

My comment was supposed to say there “aren’t” many sides who will stand off him not there “are” …

But yeah, let’s hope he can pick it up for the run in. He needs to step up himself, never mind what everyone else is doing. Really good players take it on themselves to make things happen when things aren’t going well for the team overall

100% agree with some of this

What is, and has been noticeable since the start of the season, is that he's not a Gerrard like player, who's going to take a game by the scruff of the neck. Whch is absolutely fine, not everyone has that kind of mentality.

Some of the best players on the planet didn't have that mentality. Xavi and Iniesta were obviously phenomenal players but were never the kind of players that did what Stevie used to do. TO be fair they did have a certain Messi to help them out...

I think we need to stop looking at him as THAT kind of player and rather look at him as just an excellent player for the team. If the team isn't functioning properly, he's not the player to drag us through games. He'll still win us games from time to time, and contribute to winning games.

The fact that he cost £100m is the biggest consternation. Because for that kind of money you kind of expect the Gerrard-esque performances.

[miller0863]

He won the game in Switzerland by taking the game by the scruff of the neck to be fair and often did it in the Bundesliga, I just doubt he going to be able to do it in our league.

Excellent player in the right environment, I don’t think this is that.

[ianlfc]

Call me old fashioned but for £115 million, I was expecting more.

[miller0863]

🆕🗣 Former Liverpool striker Dean Saunders believes Florian Wirtz has become "a bit of an issue" for the Reds.

Wirtz was in impressive form for Germany over the international break with two goals and two assists in the 4-3 win in Switzerland and another starring role in the 2-1 home triumph over Ghana.

The 22-year-old experienced a slow start to his Anfield career after arriving in a £116million deal from Bayer Leverkusen last summer, but has since gone on to register six goals and nine assists.

But Saunders reckons that return is insufficient to make up for what he regards the attacking midfielder interrupting the balance of the Reds' engine room.

"I thought when he scored a couple of goals, he'll come good," said the ex-Wales international. "He's involved in a lot of intricate moves around the box.

"He still looks a bit lightweight on the pitch, and if you think back to Jurgen Klopp's era when (Philippe) Coutinho used to play as the third midfielder, Liverpool used to score more goals and let more in.

"He then got rid of Coutinho and played a midfield of (James) Milner, (Jordan) Henderson, Fabinho or (Gini) Wijnaldum. He had three aggressive, not creative, workers in midfield. They decreased the amount of goals they conceded and scored more.

"Wirtz, it's a problem because if you play him on the left, he's not going to run back. He tries, but he cannot stay with his man, when you're away from home and struggling.

"𝑰𝒇 𝒚𝒐𝒖 𝒑𝒍𝒂𝒚 𝒉𝒊𝒎 𝒂𝒕 𝒏𝒖𝒎𝒃𝒆𝒓 10, 𝒉𝒆'𝒔 𝒈𝒐𝒕 𝒕𝒐 𝒑𝒓𝒐𝒅𝒖𝒄𝒆, 𝒂𝒏𝒅 𝒉𝒆'𝒔 𝒏𝒐𝒕 𝒓𝒆𝒂𝒍𝒍𝒚 𝒑𝒓𝒐𝒅𝒖𝒄𝒆𝒅. 𝑺𝒐 𝒊𝒕'𝒔 𝒂 𝒃𝒊𝒕 𝒐𝒇 𝒂𝒏 𝒊𝒔𝒔𝒖𝒆. 𝑾𝒆 𝒄𝒂𝒏 𝒔𝒆𝒆 𝒕𝒉𝒂𝒕 𝒉𝒆'𝒔 𝒕𝒂𝒍𝒆𝒏𝒕𝒆𝒅, 𝒂𝒏𝒅 𝒇𝒊𝒏𝒈𝒆𝒓𝒔 𝒄𝒓𝒐𝒔𝒔𝒆𝒅 𝒉𝒆 𝒎𝒊𝒈𝒉𝒕 𝒄𝒐𝒎𝒆 𝒈𝒐𝒐𝒅 𝒏𝒆𝒙𝒕 𝒔𝒆𝒂𝒔𝒐𝒏."

[darrenpotter]

🆕🗣 Former Liverpool striker Dean Saunders believes Florian Wirtz has become "a bit of an issue" for the Reds.

Wirtz was in impressive form for Germany over the international break with two goals and two assists in the 4-3 win in Switzerland and another starring role in the 2-1 home triumph over Ghana.

The 22-year-old experienced a slow start to his Anfield career after arriving in a £116million deal from Bayer Leverkusen last summer, but has since gone on to register six goals and nine assists.

But Saunders reckons that return is insufficient to make up for what he regards the attacking midfielder interrupting the balance of the Reds' engine room.

"I thought when he scored a couple of goals, he'll come good," said the ex-Wales international. "He's involved in a lot of intricate moves around the box.

"He still looks a bit lightweight on the pitch, and if you think back to Jurgen Klopp's era when (Philippe) Coutinho used to play as the third midfielder, Liverpool used to score more goals and let more in.

"He then got rid of Coutinho and played a midfield of (James) Milner, (Jordan) Henderson, Fabinho or (Gini) Wijnaldum. He had three aggressive, not creative, workers in midfield. They decreased the amount of goals they conceded and scored more.

"Wirtz, it's a problem because if you play him on the left, he's not going to run back. He tries, but he cannot stay with his man, when you're away from home and struggling.

"𝑰𝒇 𝒚𝒐𝒖 𝒑𝒍𝒂𝒚 𝒉𝒊𝒎 𝒂𝒕 𝒏𝒖𝒎𝒃𝒆𝒓 10, 𝒉𝒆'𝒔 𝒈𝒐𝒕 𝒕𝒐 𝒑𝒓𝒐𝒅𝒖𝒄𝒆, 𝒂𝒏𝒅 𝒉𝒆'𝒔 𝒏𝒐𝒕 𝒓𝒆𝒂𝒍𝒍𝒚 𝒑𝒓𝒐𝒅𝒖𝒄𝒆𝒅. 𝑺𝒐 𝒊𝒕'𝒔 𝒂 𝒃𝒊𝒕 𝒐𝒇 𝒂𝒏 𝒊𝒔𝒔𝒖𝒆. 𝑾𝒆 𝒄𝒂𝒏 𝒔𝒆𝒆 𝒕𝒉𝒂𝒕 𝒉𝒆'𝒔 𝒕𝒂𝒍𝒆𝒏𝒕𝒆𝒅, 𝒂𝒏𝒅 𝒇𝒊𝒏𝒈𝒆𝒓𝒔 𝒄𝒓𝒐𝒔𝒔𝒆𝒅 𝒉𝒆 𝒎𝒊𝒈𝒉𝒕 𝒄𝒐𝒎𝒆 𝒈𝒐𝒐𝒅 𝒏𝒆𝒙𝒕 𝒔𝒆𝒂𝒔𝒐𝒏."

That would be former player and current alcoholic dean saunders wouldn't listen to a word from that cunts mouth

[miller0863]

Pretty sure it was said when sober so whether he is or isn’t an alcoholic is irrelevant.
The fact he is an ex Liverpool player gives his view on a current player a credence, whereas yours…..

[justme]

I'm obviously not an ex Liverpool player (or am i hmm ) Seriously though, I have said similar on Coutinho and Wirtz having the same issues. neither in a 3 or neither wide
With playing Wirzt in a 3, leaves you very short in midfield.. and that also effects the back line. They don;t know whether to push right up to compensate for lack of player and to close the space that way Or to drop off. We've seen numerous times. teams playing slightly in between the spaces between our back line and midfield and we are all over the shop then defending.

we are much better with Grav/Macca and Dom.. Both Macca and Dom also can play 8 and drop in alongside Gravenberch to help him.I'd happily sell Wirzt and bring in someone like Wharton or the guy at Forest whose name escapes me now.
If you can get back 80 million for Wirzt, we'd be able to get either 1 then. Be a loss. but not a total loss going forward

We have enough attacking intent in Dom and Macca they get their share of goals. And we could even play Gakpo inside off the striker as well in parts of games..

We won't ditch Wirzt after 1 season though. But to me it would be the best option and get back to how we use to play. and forget the trendy number 10. It's never worked for us.

[pob]

That would be former player and current alcoholic dean saunders wouldn't listen to a word from that cunts mouth

Gave 100% on the pitch every time he put the shirt on, so couldn't care less if he's a piss head now. Everything he's said about Wirtz is spot on.