Florian Wirtz

[miller0863]

If Bayern are serious about thinking he’s worth £100m ….

We desperately need at least one wide forward next summer, that would get us a very good one

[justme]

Looking at his form this season. we'd be lucky to get half of that.. I dunno what possessed the club to pay 115 million. well an 100 million., 15 extra if we win 4 major trophies. Ie 2 leagues and 2 champions leagues or something along those lines.
No chance of attaining that with him.. I hope am proved wrong. But i think we both agree. we are to slow in transition with him. and he needs to always pass. rather than try and break the lines with a dribble or something different.

[jozza800]

Looking at his form this season. we'd be lucky to get half of that.. I dunno what possessed the club to pay 115 million. well an 100 million., 15 extra if we win 4 major trophies. Ie 2 leagues and 2 champions leagues or something along those lines.
No chance of attaining that with him.. I hope am proved wrong. But i think we both agree. we are to slow in transition with him. and he needs to always pass. rather than try and break the lines with a dribble or something different.

He's one of the few players who plays forwards. He's all one and two touches, watch how many touches Dom, Mac or Grav make before playing a pass.

Watch how many touches the forwards need to get everything under control. Gakpo was shocking.

Wirtz made a lovely little move and a nicely weighted pass for Ekitike in Paris only for Ekitike to fall over his own feet.

He faded (as did everyone else) in the 2nd half, but he'll get fitter and stronger and will better for having this season.

There are going to be an awful lot of people backtracking at some point in the future...

[miller0863]

I’ve been hearing that all season and I haven’t altered my opinion one iota.

A good player does not have to justify his ineffectiveness through the poor performance of others

[teesred]

He's one of the few players who plays forwards. He's all one and two touches, watch how many touches Dom, Mac or Grav make before playing a pass.

Watch how many touches the forwards need to get everything under control. Gakpo was shocking.

Wirtz made a lovely little move and a nicely weighted pass for Ekitike in Paris only for Ekitike to fall over his own feet.

He faded (as did everyone else) in the 2nd half, but he'll get fitter and stronger and will better for having this season.

There are going to be an awful lot of people backtracking at some point in the future...

Gakpo was piss poor again. Fuck knows how he didn't get subbed.

Btw did you go to the Darlo game today? David Speedie was there,I had no idea he'd played for them. 80-82.

Agree on Wirtz..still no concerns for me. I watched Bayern the other night and thought how good would he be in that team. It's the set up that's wrong and the personnel.

[jozza800]

Gakpo was piss poor again. Fuck knows how he didn't get subbed.

Btw did you go to the Darlo game today? David Speedie was there,I had no idea he'd played for them. 80-82.

Agree on Wirtz..still no concerns for me. I watched Bayern the other night and thought how good would he be in that team. It's the set up that's wrong and the personnel.

Yeah, though slightly before my time. There's quite bit of connection between Darlo and Liverpool. David Speedie, Staunton was manager for a few years as was Dave Hodgson.

I like Gakpo, but he's absolutely stinking the place out at the moment. File away with Mac, Mo and Konate... this season.

[teesred]

Yeah, though slightly before my time. There's quite bit of connection between Darlo and Liverpool. David Speedie, Staunton was manager for a few years as was Dave Hodgson.

I like Gakpo, but he's absolutely stinking the place out at the moment. File away with Mac, Mo and Konate... this season.

I remember Hodgson as manager. My brother in law played for them in the mid 90s when Jimmy Case was there. I think he only played a couple of games.
Didn't even recognise Bryan Little either.

[justme]

He's one of the few players who plays forwards. He's all one and two touches, watch how many touches Dom, Mac or Grav make before playing a pass.

Watch how many touches the forwards need to get everything under control. Gakpo was shocking.

Wirtz made a lovely little move and a nicely weighted pass for Ekitike in Paris only for Ekitike to fall over his own feet.

He faded (as did everyone else) in the 2nd half, but he'll get fitter and stronger and will better for having this season.

There are going to be an awful lot of people backtracking at some point in the future...

He will not make it here.. we are better with 3 natural midfielders. as for making one "nice pass" kindly look at the amount of passes that slow our play down.
I will admit to being wrong about him, If he turns out to be a good player for us. next season he may improve. But our win ratio will not be high enough with him playing in the 11 over all. secondly his end product will not be enough. Dom has played at right back most of the season and still has more goals than him. And will have next season. if hes allowed to play further forward in a 3. Not have Wirzt playing there

[Insidious]

If Bayern are serious about thinking he’s worth £100m ….

We desperately need at least one wide forward next summer, that would get us a very good one

I'd be intrigued to see if Edwards, Hughes et al see the picture that way.

- Wirtz comes in from Bayer Leverkusen, where a back five was used.
- Frimpong comes in from Bayer Leverkusen, where a back five was used.
- Ekitike comes in from Frankfurt, where a back five was used.
- We wanted Guehi, another centre-back, who had a medical scheduled and would have come had Glasner not threatened to walk - we may have used him in a back three.
- Kerkez has the typical qualities of a wing-back.
- We wanted Alonso, who used a 3-5-2 for much of his time at Bayer Leverkusen.
- Van Dijk, our oldest centre-back, could probably use a little more protection in his Autumn/Winter years.
- Salah is difficult to replace

It's impossible to know with any certainty, but given how imbalanced and incomplete our recruitment looked by the end of the window, combined with the profile some of the ones we targeted, it's fair to say that we may have been recruiting for a 3-5-2 as our default.

Having a "10" in Wirtz (back-up may be Elliott upon return?) would save money on further midfield acquisitions as we'd need four mids rather than the six for depth of a truly "midfielder" midfield three in 4-3-3, whilst playing with a front two pairing would also somewhat negate the requirement for buying two top wide players.

This isn't about me personally wanting us to save money by the way, just looking at the amount we invested last Summer, how we typically operate, the amount that has been committed on a vision of sorts that hasn't yet come to fruition and my doubt that we will rip up the blueprint before seeing it deployed regularly.

I mean, if we take our three expensive acquisitions in Isak, Ekitike and Wirtz, you'd wonder how many minutes they have actually played together when all three of them are simultaneously on the pitch. With the Isak injury, Ekitike starting the season without Isak (who wasn't fit yet) and so on, I'd be amazed if they have played 180 minutes together yet.

I think those who hold the keys will want to see what they had in mind (Wirtz behind Isak and Ekitike, or perhaps Wirtz behind Isak with Ekitike on the left) actually given some playing time given the massive investment in the three of them before moving elsewhere.

Which begs the question - will we even be interested in a wide forward profile? Replacing (peak) Salah feels next-to-impossible. Even the acquisition of Olise, which feels incredibly unlikely to begin with, would surely use up most of our budget on what is ultimately one player.

It'll be an absolutely fascinating Summer window and I'm so intrigued to see if Edwards/Hughes are sold on the vision they had in mind and decide to dig their heels and push on with it, perceiving this season to have been a "Year Zero" prior to it really working, or whether there's a feeling that the whole idea was wrong and some hands are collectively held up with a view to trying to find something closer to where we were at prior to Slot.

A small part of me wishes I were more neutral, as we're a fascinating case study just now - however I am too keen for us to win matches and to win them now!

[RedMagic]

I'd rather Slot, Hughes and Edwards took their visions elsewhere. The more of those three that remain, the more issues we're liable to have.

[justincredible]

I'd rather Slot, Hughes and Edwards took their visions elsewhere. The more of those three that remain, the more issues we're liable to have.

Yeah, it's only the 1000th time you've mentioned it...

[Insidious]

I'd rather Slot, Hughes and Edwards took their visions elsewhere. The more of those three that remain, the more issues we're liable to have.

Be that as it may, I suspect at least two of them will still be here and all three is still entirely possible, for a few different reasons.

- It could be that Edwards+Hughes don't want to be advising that Slot is shown the door, as it'd be an admission that they got things wrong, which could in turn get them the sack, aka they're just covering their own arses. This would be troubling.

- It could be that there is an understanding of the circumstances that blighted the season in terms of the pain felt about that issue with the car at the parade, the tragic death of Jota, the blight of injuries, the inability to complete key transfer work, Salah's drop-off and so on. For me personally, tough as it may have been, the manager (or coach in our case) still has to find a way and still has to show enough that we're capable of adaptation. Much of the season we have played "nothing football" and our overall malaise having begun last March has lasted for 13 months now.

- It could be that there is underlying statistical data (the sort of stats that go deeper than the xG type stuff that the public gets access to) that suggests genuine bad luck this season. Klopp's last season with Dortmund they were in relegation form for about half of the season, yet statistical analysis showed that Dortmund had actually performed to the level of a team that should have finished closer to the Champion's League spots - they'd just been genuinely unlucky in terms of very fine margins with some things, much like us with that season where Suarez couldn't stop hitting the woodwork. Perhaps they feel that Slot is "owed" a chance at a season where things are a bit more even.

I'd love to be a fly on the wall for it all. I think the overwhelming majority of people have had enough and feel the desire for a new Manager given the sense of disconnect, the style of play, some of the press conference quotes having Brentisms, the regularity of the losses, the number of losses where we lose by three goals, the lack of our own goals, etc.

Which is understandable, to say the least. I always attempt to do a bit of Devil's Advocate, a bit of "what if?" and I like to try and understand other people's viewpoints even if I don't necessarily agree so I am trying to see what they're seeing (Edwards, Hughes etc) from a "benefit of the doubt" perspective and if we're being generous, they might look at it and say that as of right now, we -

Reached an FA Cup quarter-final, reached the Champion's League quarter-final and are 3 points off 3rd spot as it stands "despite difficult circumstances" which, on paper, doesn't look awful - whereas obviously we as fans know that it has not been anything like as simple as that and that some of the other units of measurement (points tally, goals scored, goals conceded, number of defeats, number of heavy defeats) aren't remotely good enough for a club with our ambitions, especially when coupled with our (lack of!) style of play at present.

I don't actually necessarily mind if there is to be a pursuit of a 3-5-2 or a 4-2-2 Diamond are our blueprint going forward, but it needs to be well coached and the football needs to be more entertaining. We also don't want to be left holding our c*cks in our hands if we are still rubbish in October (thinking a repeat of Brendan's last part-season before we get Jürgen in) only to find that the Manager we could have gone for (Alonso or whoever) is now no longer available.

Speaking of Alonso, it's hilarious that he was perceived by some in Madrid to have done a "bad" job - Arbeloa has already lost the same amount of games as Xabi had in a shorter period of time. They've got some problems over there (nice problems to have some might say) including Mbappe's desire to go into the spaces Vinicius occupies as they both prefer the left, rather than Kylian holding territory in the "nine" to receive the ball at key times. With egos at that level, that's a tricky situation to manage.

[Steveo]

H’edwards need to be shown the door - and we need to find owners capable of making Liverpool FC competitive without the best manager in the world.

Nottingham Forest managed that for a while with Clough. This isn’t a good design

[jozza800]

How do we do it without a messianic type manager?

[justincredible]

How do we do it without a messianic type manager?

We managed alright after Brenny R....