Florian Wirtz

[justme]

We have never succeeded with a number 10. Firmino was classed as a false 9 , Still meant we had 3 midfielders behind him

I can understand we wanted someone to break down deep defenders. so had a tricky player in there. But the thing is.. you can't get away with it if the ball breaks off.. you're short in midfield by one.
You can't get your full backs forward like you'd want too. because the extra midfielder can't cover that side.

Teams will also sit deep against us. But i'd rather we had a bit more protection in midfield and be more patient.. Try not to concede as many goals. we have let in 42 goals already.. thats 10 to many in my book. we would have at least 10 more points
with a better defensive play.. The last minute goal against Fulham springs to mind. and others.

[CCTV]

😂

What is this absolute nonsense about 'my method' vs 'your method'? This isn't a lab experiment - it’s football.

You’re hiding behind contrived metrics because they’re the only way to support your bizarre Gakpo agenda. To suggest that a team win ratio I made about the same players in the same team - makes Luis Díaz a 'better attacker' than Suárez, Salah, or Rush is genuinely embarrassing. It’s the hallmark of someone who spends more time looking at columns on a screen than actually watching the game.

Only someone who has never set foot in Anfield would try to compare win ratios across different eras. Comparing a Rodgers side to a Klopp side using that metric is statistically illiterate—one team was a transitional work-in-progress, the other was a refined winning machine.

The 'eye test' isn't just a phrase…it’s how you actually judge an attacker's quality, movement, and individual brilliance. Suárez is streets ahead of everyone on that list, and you don't need a proprietary method to see it.

You’re tying yourself in knots trying to backtrack on your Gakpo claims. Give it a rest and actually watch a match for once.

I have been going to Anfield since the 70/71 season. I have eyes. I don’t need “metrics” to give me an opinion on a player when I have watched every single minute he has played for my club.

Echo The Anfield Front

Goals or Assists per minute are a better metric than your then proposed win ratio Steveo.
And they show a level from Wirtz comparable with Foden, Eze, Rogers, Sobozla & Palmer in this thread.


On the stats that time, ignoring all other factors, positions, eras, sides played in, and just 2 stats.....

We have

My goals or assists per minute stats

Goals or Assists per minute at LFC

1) Salah 94.2 minutes

2) Suarez 100.2 minutes

3) Rush 125.9 minutes

4) Gakpo 150.2 minutes

5) Diaz 156.3 minutes


CCTVs stat driven front 3 for LFC

Suarez Rush Salah


Or


Your then proposed better metric... player win ratios

Win ratio at LFC

1) Diaz 67.57%

2) Salah 63.24%

3) Gakpo*59.2%

4) Rush*54.7%

5) Suarez 50.38%


Steveos stat driven front 3 for LFC

Gakpo Diaz Salah


One can use one's eyes to decide which metric is the better measure

And in case you need to go to specsavers, it's
Suarez Rush Salah


And looking at the Klopp era ONLY

Win ratio suggests Diaz is better than Salah, in the same manner it suggests Diaz is better than Gakpo.

Whereas goals and assists say Salah is miles better than both.


If Gakpo plays another five 90 minute matches this season,
and doesn't score or assist in those 5 games he'd drop below Diaz at LFC on my metric.

If Salah plays the six remaining 90 minute games this season
and gets no goals or assists in those 6 games then his level would drop to.....

Per 95.6 minutes & still miles better than both Gakpo & Diaz

[Steveo]

There it is again - shifting the goalposts the moment the logic fails.

I used the win ratio to compare Díaz and Gakpo because they played a similar volume of games (148 vs 128) in the same team, under the same conditions. It was a simple way to show a ‘data analyst’ that even in his own RIDICULOUS language, numbers can also prove Díaz is the far more vital player. Anyone who actually attends games - and sees the players on the pitch in the flesh already knew that - here the data just caught up to the eye test.

But comparing Salah to Díaz? That is yet more world-class statistical illiteracy. You are excelling in this.

Salah:437 games 35,326 mins

Díaz: 110 games 8,567 mins

You are trying to compare a decade-long legacy to a fraction of the sample size. It’s a massive whopper, even for you. Put the calculator down and try watching the match for once. 🧐

[Insidious]

So long as he's playing well for Germany Wirtz's value won't drop by much if at all. With that being case it might be worth at least giving him a bit more time under a new manager to see what he's capable of.

He creates chances aplenty. Understandably people will debate the quality of those chances, but still good that they're occuring.

Indeed, in terms of open play chances created from open-play in debut Premier League season for Liverpool, the lost looks as follows -

62 - Dirk Kuyt (2006/07)
53 - Mo Salah (2017/18)
52 - Jermaine Pennant (2006/07)
50 - Florian Wirtz (2025/26)

He’s actually just the second player to create 50+ chances from open play in the Premier League at all this season - Bruno Fernandes is flying on that metric with 73 at present.

I think what everyone wants to see from him now are -

- More clear-cut, high-quality chances like perfect through-balls. This will hopefully improve if the movement and pace of the attackers ahead of him improves, but he of course needs to do some of this work himself.

- Giving the ball away a little less. He is inclined to be high-risk in an attempt to get someone into an attacking position, so when he gets it wrong, we lose the ball and are often countered on.

- Goals. I'd been hoping he would get 10 or so League goals this season to do his bit with chipping in to our total tally and he has fallen short there.

Absolutely a player there though and he would probably be bottom of my "sell" list. We've seen managers fail to get the best out of players before (look at Firmino under Rodgers v under Slot) and I hope in time we are getting to see someone else at the helm continue to help Florian on his trajectory.

He'll also start next season a bit bulkier, which will help him.

[Ravo19]

My issue with wirtz comes down to formation as he's a 10,not physical enough as a 8.
With isak being a 9 and better suited through the middle in a front 3 not front 2,for wirtz to work we have to make the 4 2 3 1 work.

[Steveo]

There’s nothing wrong with Wirtz at all… he’s been fine… not great but certainly not shyte… And the eye test shows us his quality. It’s thereX

…however the point being made by some is that we simply didn’t need him… certainly not at £113 million… he could be superb in a better footballing side… one with more high volume of progressive plays… but this isn't it… not this season anyway… we should have put that money into prioritising a specialist number 6 and a senior CB to actually shore up the spine of this team… those were the glaring holes we ignored to sign a luxury player we didn't have a clear plan for.

I was over the moon when we signed him assuming we would still capture the more needed entities. But no - huge fees were also put down on 2 strikers…

[Red October]

He creates chances aplenty. Understandably people will debate the quality of those chances, but still good that they're occuring.

Indeed, in terms of open play chances created from open-play in debut Premier League season for Liverpool, the lost looks as follows -

62 - Dirk Kuyt (2006/07)
53 - Mo Salah (2017/18)
52 - Jermaine Pennant (2006/07)
50 - Florian Wirtz (2025/26)

He’s actually just the second player to create 50+ chances from open play in the Premier League at all this season - Bruno Fernandes is flying on that metric with 73 at present.

I think what everyone wants to see from him now are -

- More clear-cut, high-quality chances like perfect through-balls. This will hopefully improve if the movement and pace of the attackers ahead of him improves, but he of course needs to do some of this work himself.

- Giving the ball away a little less. He is inclined to be high-risk in an attempt to get someone into an attacking position, so when he gets it wrong, we lose the ball and are often countered on.

- Goals. I'd been hoping he would get 10 or so League goals this season to do his bit with chipping in to our total tally and he has fallen short there.

Absolutely a player there though and he would probably be bottom of my "sell" list. We've seen managers fail to get the best out of players before (look at Firmino under Rodgers v under Slot) and I hope in time we are getting to see someone else at the helm continue to help Florian on his trajectory.

He'll also start next season a bit bulkier, which will help him.

I'd be shocked if they sold him so soon. I think we should give him another season. Unfortunately, if Slot is manager I have zero confidence he will get the best out of him. If an Alonso or other comes in maybe we will see more from him. I think the biggest issue is the price tag. If he came in for about 60m we'd probably be inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt. Keita was here for 3 seasons I think and hardly ever produced anything. I think Wirtz has already shown a lot of potential. His touch and quick movement are crazy at times. It's just you wish that if we were going to spend 100m, you'd wish we'd got what the team were crying out for.

[CCTV]

Echo The Anfield Front

Goals or Assists per minute are a better metric than your then proposed win ratio Steveo.
And they show a level from Wirtz comparable with Foden, Eze, Rogers, Sobozla & Palmer in this thread.


On the stats that time, ignoring all other factors, positions, eras, sides played in, and just 2 stats.....

We have

My goals or assists per minute stats

Goals or Assists per minute at LFC

1) Salah 94.2 minutes

2) Suarez 100.2 minutes

3) Rush 125.9 minutes

4) Gakpo 150.2 minutes

5) Diaz 156.3 minutes


CCTVs stat driven front 3 for LFC

Suarez Rush Salah


Or


Your then proposed better metric... player win ratios

Win ratio at LFC

1) Diaz 67.57%

2) Salah 63.24%

3) Gakpo*59.2%

4) Rush*54.7%

5) Suarez 50.38%


Steveos stat driven front 3 for LFC

Gakpo Diaz Salah


One can use one's eyes to decide which metric is the better measure

And in case you need to go to specsavers, it's
Suarez Rush Salah


And looking at the Klopp era ONLY

Win ratio suggests Diaz is better than Salah, in the same manner it suggests Diaz is better than Gakpo.

Whereas goals and assists say Salah is miles better than both.


If Gakpo plays another five 90 minute matches this season,
and doesn't score or assist in those 5 games he'd drop below Diaz at LFC on my metric.

If Salah plays the six remaining 90 minute games this season
and gets no goals or assists in those 6 games then his level would drop to.....

Per 95.6 minutes & still miles better than both Gakpo & Diaz

There it is again - shifting the goalposts the moment the logic fails.

I used the win ratio to compare Díaz and Gakpo because they played a similar volume of games (148 vs 128) in the same team, under the same conditions. It was a simple way to show a ‘data analyst’ that even in his own RIDICULOUS language, numbers can also prove Díaz is the far more vital player. Anyone who actually attends games - and sees the players on the pitch in the flesh already knew that - here the data just caught up to the eye test.

But comparing Salah to Díaz? That is yet more world-class statistical illiteracy. You are excelling in this.

Salah:437 games 35,326 mins

Díaz: 110 games 8,567 mins

You are trying to compare a decade-long legacy to a fraction of the sample size. It’s a massive whopper, even for you. Put the calculator down and try watching the match for once. 🧐

This is not a valid criticism. The samples have enough games and minutes to be compared.

By using goals and assists, the better metric...
I can conclude

That a front 3 of Suarez, Rush & Salah is better than
A front 3 of Diaz, Gakpo & Salah.

It should not surprise anyone that goals & assists per minute is the better metric.

And using only the 2025/26 season we can see how Wirtz is doing on goals & assists per minute compared with others.

[Steveo]

I have been going to Anfield since the 70/71 season. I have eyes. I don’t need “metrics” to give me an opinion on a player when I have watched every single minute he has played for my club.

For the Security Camera with a dodgy lens - to read and comprehend..

[jozza800]

I don't think there is any doubt that he's been underwhelming. But then again I was expecting him to be an addition to bouyant, excited, confident league champions.

I was expecting him to be feeding bulllets to two insanely talented forwards, and last season's top scorer.

I was also expecting him to be backed up by two of the best midfielders in the league last season and a generational centre half and goalkeeper.

Unfortunately none of this has happened. Slot has frigged about with everything we did well last season and it's hampered not only the new lads coming into the club but also affected the lads that won it last season.

It will be a massive mistake if we move on an incredibly talented footballer based off a single season playing in such a turgid set-up.

If next season, by some miracle Slot wakes up and fixes things or someone else comes in and galvanises the team and Wirtz has a similar season, then we should probabaly think about moving him on. If we're basing our opinions on this season then we're looking for 10 new players and Szoboslai...

[toshin]

Have you ever seen a player anywhere near £100m strike a football worse than him?

He makes gakpos strikes cr7esque.

[miller0863]

One of the weaknesses I noted in his first couple of games. One of several.

[Crimson Dynasty]

Actually, he does have a shot and a very good one.

I'm not sure if you watched any of the Leverkusen games when he was there, or even the recent internationals when he was with the German national team and he scored a long-range screamer and worldie that was practically Xabi-esque,....dare I say.

Most Liverpool fans don't know this, because under Slot his game has turned into crap.

[KingCanny]

There’s nothing wrong with Wirtz at all… he’s been fine… not great but certainly not shyte… And the eye test shows us his quality. It’s thereX

…however the point being made by some is that we simply didn’t need him… certainly not at £113 million… he could be superb in a better footballing side… one with more high volume of progressive plays… but this isn't it… not this season anyway… we should have put that money into prioritising a specialist number 6 and a senior CB to actually shore up the spine of this team… those were the glaring holes we ignored to sign a luxury player we didn't have a clear plan for.

I was over the moon when we signed him assuming we would still capture the more needed entities. But no - huge fees were also put down on 2 strikers…

Exactly this. Fortunes spent on a forward line that dont seem capable of playing together. Seems a lot like Hughes & Edwards showing off with their own ego boosts rather than focusing on what was needed. If Slot told Wirtz he would build the team around him then where's the evidence of that?We have a coach who cant manage Superstar players hes out of his depth & the fact is hes made our reliable players look bad.

[miller0863]

Another storming performance