Florian Wirtz

[ianlfc]

Absolute shite again, £120 million Harvey Elliott.

[justincredible]

Another storming performance

I didn't see the match today, but that's good to hear...

[miller0863]

Cherki was £20m and an absolute no brainer, particularly as he had said he wanted to come here.

[justincredible]

Cherki was £20m and an absolute no brainer, particularly as he had said he wanted to come here.

£20m..? Lowballing a bit there...

"On 10 June 2025, Premier League club Manchester City announced the signing of Cherki on a five-year contract for a reported initial fee of €36.5m, a potential €6m in add-ons, and a 15% sell-on clause."

[justincredible]

Still a bargain though...

[miller0863]

Ok so £30m.

I was banging on about us buying him for a couple of months at the back end of last season, culminating in his impressive display away at Old Trafford in the Europa League

[Steveo]

Payed £30 mill rising to £34. - an absolute theft - as the purchase of this club was in 2010

[miller0863]

Another game in which the great man proved his worth …. 🙄

[justme]

The problem is, we need width,. but we can't start Rio. cause Wirzt can't play in a 3.. so hes shifted out wide. even then he spends his time inside.. we've fuck all width of the left. Gakpo is playing up the middle cause 2 of our number 9s are injured.
Which is understandable. But it comes down to Wirzt or Rio.. and Wirzt being a Slot signing will always get in the starting 11

[Insidious]

I'd be reluctant to put Wirtz out on the right personally - he does his very best work in the left half-space.

If we "have" to play him in the front three, he'd really fare much better from the left, but given our use of a 4-3-3 and 4-2-2-2 in the past (I prefer not to call it a 4-2-4) he'd be better as the left 8/10 in a 4-3-3 or the left AM in the 2 behind the front strikers.

Said this in August and still feel exactly the same way about it.

[miller0863]

We are constantly either weakening the midfield or attack to shoe horn him in, it’s a ridiculous situation and one which has contributed in no small part to us being far easier to play through.

[jozza800]

Teams have been setting up in a 4231 for the best part of 25 years.

How many of these teams dont play with 2 holding mifldfielders.

Think Rafa with Masch and Xabi in behind Gerrard or Chelsea's Makalele and Essien sat behind Lampard.

What we're doing is asking Makalele or Masch to get forward whenever possible. It's lunacy.

Wirtz's performances/ability is up for debate but let's at least see what he can do in properly set up system.

[Insidious]

Teams have been setting up in a 4231 for the best part of 25 years.

How many of these teams dont play with 2 holding mifldfielders.

Think Rafa with Masch and Xabi in behind Gerrard or Chelsea's Makalele and Essien sat behind Lampard.

What we're doing is asking Makalele or Masch to get forward whenever possible. It's lunacy.

Wirtz's performances/ability is up for debate but let's at least see what he can do in properly set up system.

Agree wholeheartedly.

We are currently lacking pace in the wide areas so Wirtz isn't releasing it as quickly and thus tries to force it more often. As a consequence, we lose possession.

When we do lose possession, we've often pushed our midfielders too high and lads like Mac Allister can't recover.

Some is personnel, some tactical.

If we compare to the 08/09 side, I think Slot/Hughes/Edwards will seek to bring another "Alonso" in and I'd be absolutely delighted if we instead brought a "Mascherano" in for balance, tasked with putting out fires and taking the odd tactical yellow.

Pacey wide players in a 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1.....or bite the bullet and set up in a system with 2 strikers, whether that's the 4-4-2 Diamond or a 3-5-2.

Any of the 4-4-2 Diamond, the 3-5-2 or the 4-2-3-1 allow Wirtz to be a 10 whilst still having some protection, whilst he could easily play as one of the 8/10s in a 4-3-3, ideally on the left.

- Get him in the 10
- Pace around him so he can play those passes early
- A destroyer to cover for when it does go wrong (which I'd want anyway irrespective of Wirtz's presence in the side)

I think there's the makings of an excellent side here, but we have to absolutely nail our recruitment and I don't think Slot will be the man to do it, much as I would love him to prove me wrong.

[miller0863]

We have played 4231 with Wirtz in a ten numerous times. His performances were just as anonymous so not surprised you’ve forgotten

[Insidious]

We have played 4231 with Wirtz in a ten numerous times. His performances were just as anonymous so not surprised you’ve forgotten

I haven't forgotten.

The right personnel around him within a 4-2-3-1 should make him more effective.

To be fair this can be said of any player, in terms of improving what's around them to lift their individual capacity.

With not having pacey wide players in this side (Gakpo isn't fast, Salah was but no longer is) and without having a "firefighter" to cover for when he is forcing it (due to the lack of pace, meaning it can rarely be played early on an effective counter) I don't think we have much chance of seeing his best.

It's been further compounded by Mac Allister's capacity for recovery basically being gone and us not having settled on our situation at full-back succession.

Today as an example, we bought Kerkez and Frimpong to be flying full-backs and instead we have Robertson and Jones due to the fact that Kerkez isn't "there" yet and Frimpong was deployed as a wide player.

Wirtz, amongst others, represents a decent "ingredient" but the recipe is all over the shop right now.

There's plenty needing fixing and some of those fixes should lift Wirtz and vice-versa.

If I prove to be wrong on that score and we go on to sell him, I'd be disappointed. I'd love to see him in a functioning side.