Match Thread Liverpool V Sunderland.

[Steveo]

Not sure these are the two main issues as to why we're so poor.

I agree - they aren’t - just suggesting that maybe they are a part of it.

[Steveo]

I think most of us know what the main reason is. But many will not admit it

[justme]

The 2 main issues for me is this . We were expecting teams to sit deeper against us this season and im sure if you look at the overall playing maps its been proven from this time last season and up to date this season.
So we naturally bought a player in Wirzt to break down stubborn defences.. The problem is it weakens your midfield. Our best midfield's in our 2 winning league campaigns have been Fabinho/Wijnaldum and Henderson.. last season was Grav Macca and Dom.. Thats why should have gone for someone like Seymeno whos much more quicker than Wirzt and is physically stronger..
All Wirzt wants to do is play the ball neatly and cleverly. everything is slowed down.. Sure teams will always sit deep against us. But in a large portion of the game we will get more chances if we had gotten someone like Seymeno.. we are creating nothing right now and everything is in front of the opponents..


Second issue is the wider area.. We never get around the sides to turn the opposition sideways.. its again always in front its so easy to defend when your face on to the ball, Playing like that never helps Isak. Hes best in the box.. we never get the ball into the box for him..

[Steveo]

not sure the above is why we had lost 6 league games by game week 12.

Not sure any of that explains why we had a near 50% loss rate until Sunday since March 2025.

There seems to be more underlying to explain the fairly abrupt loss of form of so many players since then. There has been partying in Ibiza before the season was over and things like that BUT before that we got schooled in Paris - over powered by Newcastle - beaten at Wembley by Palace who have also beaten us twice since - that’s 3 comps and every game they have beaten us in. Thats not who we have been for the best part of a decade

[KingCanny]

I think most of us know what the main reason is. But many will not admit it

Slot. As a manager you dont say we can't play against a low block. It's basically telling every team how to beat us. Really amatuer that every team now plays a low block knowing they were told how to play against us

[Martyboy]

Lucky to get a point I thought....Owen Goal to the rescue.....VVD awful for their goal.....Europa League next year......Maybe....

[eggy81]

The 2 main issues for me is this . We were expecting teams to sit deeper against us this season and im sure if you look at the overall playing maps its been proven from this time last season and up to date this season.
So we naturally bought a player in Wirzt to break down stubborn defences.. The problem is it weakens your midfield. Our best midfield's in our 2 winning league campaigns have been Fabinho/Wijnaldum and Henderson.. last season was Grav Macca and Dom.. Thats why should have gone for someone like Seymeno whos much more quicker than Wirzt and is physically stronger..
All Wirzt wants to do is play the ball neatly and cleverly. everything is slowed down.. Sure teams will always sit deep against us. But in a large portion of the game we will get more chances if we had gotten someone like Seymeno.. we are creating nothing right now and everything is in front of the opponents..


Second issue is the wider area.. We never get around the sides to turn the opposition sideways.. its again always in front its so easy to defend when your face on to the ball, Playing like that never helps Isak. Hes best in the box.. we never get the ball into the box for him..

There’s biggest issue and I said it in the summer is we spent money on players while moving on players and ended up in my opinion objectively and unarguably with a worse squad than last season and then went to try to play a system that has been literally shown to be against trends where we’ve gone back 5 years to slow and methodical football and literally everyone else had said we are going to crush this shit with athletes. We’ve got no athletes at all in our squad. We are lightweight in every game and look slow. Then as well as losing taa the literal best passer of a ball in the league we sign players that can’t compete physically with the vast majority of the league. We’ve started to build our next side but completely fucked the transition. No plan b or no alternative on the bench bar like for like. We’re fucked for this season.

[justme]

There’s biggest issue and I said it in the summer is we spent money on players while moving on players and ended up in my opinion objectively and unarguably with a worse squad than last season and then went to try to play a system that has been literally shown to be against trends where we’ve gone back 5 years to slow and methodical football and literally everyone else had said we are going to crush this shit with athletes. We’ve got no athletes at all in our squad. We are lightweight in every game and look slow. Then as well as losing taa the literal best passer of a ball in the league we sign players that can’t compete physically with the vast majority of the league. We’ve started to build our next side but completely fucked the transition. No plan b or no alternative on the bench bar like for like. We’re fucked for this season.

Yep i agree totally with that.. we do look very slow and weak We could play for a week and not look like scoring. Got Ekitike and benched him as soon has Isak was available. there was no plan b for getting them both in the 11. Myself personally i thought we'd play Ekitike in a 3 on the left. But thats not a plan for him. Its either him or Isak in the number 9 role.

We have really fucked up in the summer window. means we need more players now.. We gave Gakpo and extended contract, which is fine by me. But to suggest hes the main wide player is not a good idea. hes ok like last season taking it in turns with someone else. but not a starter all the time. I think we are hoping RIO will be a starter soon. hes only 17..i dunno what they are actually doing

[eggy81]

Yep i agree totally with that.. we do look very slow and weak We could play for a week and not look like scoring. Got Ekitike and benched him as soon has Isak was available. there was no plan b for getting them both in the 11. Myself personally i thought we'd play Ekitike in a 3 on the left. But thats not a plan for him. Its either him or Isak in the number 9 role.

We have really fucked up in the summer window. means we need more players now.. We gave Gakpo and extended contract, which is fine by me. But to suggest hes the main wide player is not a good idea. hes ok like last season taking it in turns with someone else. but not a starter all the time. I think we are hoping RIO will be a starter soon. hes only 17..i dunno what they are actually doing

And think it’s important to state, and I know it’s touchy for some and all but taa is a humongous loss to this side. An outrageous weakening of the side that was beyond our control but I really am amazed that fans thought it wouldn’t hurt. The man is a one off that no one else could replicate from that position and we thought frimpong could replace that. He can basically run fast.on the odd occasion he’s fit. As for Bradley. Seems to have regressed. But it’s unusual to have a player at rb that so pivotal to your ability to vary and develop stacking play. That was the beauty of him. I think it’s a major issue I. How teams are comfortable pressing us now cos they know they only have to shackle vvd. The rest haven’t a pass between them over 90 mins

[teesred]

And think it’s important to state, and I know it’s touchy for some and all but taa is a humongous loss to this side. An outrageous weakening of the side that was beyond our control but I really am amazed that fans thought it wouldn’t hurt. The man is a one off that no one else could replicate from that position and we thought frimpong could replace that. He can basically run fast.on the odd occasion he’s fit. As for Bradley. Seems to have regressed. But it’s unusual to have a player at rb that so pivotal to your ability to vary and develop stacking play. That was the beauty of him. I think it’s a major issue I. How teams are comfortable pressing us now cos they know they only have to shackle vvd. The rest haven’t a pass between them over 90 mins

Absolutely right. The loss of him is as plain as day, you see how important he was to that team despite his defensive flaws.
It's just one of many problems with the whole squad right now, a squad full of quality that's not being used correctly but also a fair few square pegs there.
The players we've let go despite being just squad players contributed a lot overall and the guys we've replaced them with might be better players but they all lack one thing and that's the tutelage of Klopp.
The instilled work rate, the team ethic that requires a bit more than everywhere else.

There's comparisons to be made here with say GH and Rafa. It was well known that GH was a real people person, had a great relationship personally with the squad. He cared whereas Rafa saw them as cogs in the machine ( the main reason Gerrard felt he needed to leave).
Nothing wrong with either method but when one follows the other in terms of managerial appointments it'll cause issues in the short term but unfortunately for Slot he won't get that long in my opinion due to bad results.

[jozza800]

Absolutely right. The loss of him is as plain as day, you see how important he was to that team despite his defensive flaws.
It's just one of many problems with the whole squad right now, a squad full of quality that's not being used correctly but also a fair few square pegs there.
The players we've let go despite being just squad players contributed a lot overall and the guys we've replaced them with might be better players but they all lack one thing and that's the tutelage of Klopp.
The instilled work rate, the team ethic that requires a bit more than everywhere else.

There's comparisons to be made here with say GH and Rafa. It was well known that GH was a real people person, had a great relationship personally with the squad. He cared whereas Rafa saw them as cogs in the machine ( the main reason Gerrard felt he needed to leave).
Nothing wrong with either method but when one follows the other in terms of managerial appointments it'll cause issues in the short term but unfortunately for Slot he won't get that long in my opinion due to bad results.

Just matching the opposition would be acceptable at this point!

If we're saying that the only way we can be successful is to have a Jurgen Klopp like manager then we may as well pack up and all go home. There haven't been and aren't many Jurgen Klopps in world football so we're probably going to be struggling to find another one.

[Steveo]

Canst speak for another but I am saying that…and I have been saying that for years!! Inside F$G’s model under Klopp that is.


I would go further I suggest F$G’s final breaking of the bank this summer attests to this reality

[Red October]

And think it’s important to state, and I know it’s touchy for some and all but taa is a humongous loss to this side. An outrageous weakening of the side that was beyond our control but I really am amazed that fans thought it wouldn’t hurt. The man is a one off that no one else could replicate from that position and we thought frimpong could replace that. He can basically run fast.on the odd occasion he’s fit. As for Bradley. Seems to have regressed. But it’s unusual to have a player at rb that so pivotal to your ability to vary and develop stacking play. That was the beauty of him. I think it’s a major issue I. How teams are comfortable pressing us now cos they know they only have to shackle vvd. The rest haven’t a pass between them over 90 mins

Good post. We've missed that creativity. The problem i see is that slot doesn't seem to have a plan. Its all very clueless. Its like he thinks get some good players and stick them on and they'll figure it out.

He doesn't seem to recognise that trent's passing needs to be replaced. He doesn't seem to see that we need dynamism in forward areas to create space. Fast passing. Crossing into the box. To me all of that is more worrying than anything. Because it shows me that he's a bit clueless. We are liverpool. We demand attacking football, not boring dross.

[jozza800]

Canst speak for another but I am saying that…and I have been saying that for years!! Inside F$G’s model under Klopp that is.


I would go further I suggest F$G’s final breaking of the bank this summer attests to this reality

What's the solution? Assuming we can't either a) entice Jurgen back or b) somehow find another Jurgen-like manager? Spend another shit-tonne of cash? If these are the only two options, then neither are particularly sustainable.

With the players we have in the squad, we should be performing much, much better no-matter who the manager is.

[jozza800]

As an attacking player in my younger days, I tend to focus mostly on the attacking side of how we play. Of which is the most concerning aspect of the way we're currently playing.

However, even I noticed how ridiculously we set up without the ball last night. Just Wirtz and Isak 'pressing' and then for some reason Grav being the 3rd man in the press and the rest sat off in our own half.

I'm not a tactical genius by any stretch, but even I thought that was batshit crazy.

It just looks like Arne is setting them up to fail.

The drop off is too much for it to be a few players out of form, or integration of new players.