January Window

[CCTV]

This just doesn't make sense to me. If as you say they recognise Klopp as what he is a generational manager they've thought the best way to support him is to see what he can do with an arm tied behind his back?

Then seen his replacement win a title in his first season and thought to themselves - 'mmm, not sure about this guy..., fuck it, here's half a billion pounds to spend....'

FSG haven't spent daft money in all of the years they've been here. Why would they suddenly do it for a manager they're not sold on?

The idea it took a whole year for the panic to show in transfer market activity after we won number20 under Slot is just typical steveo non sense.

Steveo only really talks up Klopp to talk the club down. Hes said plenty of wild shit about Klopp and his football.

[RedMagic]

This just doesn't make sense to me. If as you say they recognise Klopp as what he is a generational manager they've thought the best way to support him is to see what he can do with an arm tied behind his back?

Then seen his replacement win a title in his first season and thought to themselves - 'mmm, not sure about this guy..., fuck it, here's half a billion pounds to spend....'

FSG haven't spent daft money in all of the years they've been here. Why would they suddenly do it for a manager they're not sold on?

We don't know what FSG thought of Klopp. We'll possibly never know for sure, but as far as I'm concerned FSG hired Klopp first and foremost because he had proved that he could be and had been successful whilst only having a rather limited transfer budget to play with, and also whilst having integral players to his team sold from underneath him.

One massive point that many don't seem to be taking into account is the relationship between the manager, the owners, the CEO, and those tasked with sporting and recruitment decisions. Klopp made it known that he wanted more players but that he was denied those things by those who had the final say. It was well known that Klopp and Michael Edwards didn't get on. Now with that being the case it's not hard to imagine a scenario between the two whereby one wants more players of a certain type, whilst the other person who has the final say refuses such requests even if those requests are perfectly reasonable and are being made by someone who has proved themselves.

If someone has a certain way of doing things or a particular way of dealing with people especially those they butt heads with, they are for the most part going to do the same things even if everyone else can see the folly in what they are doing. This seems to be pervasive within the world of football be it on or off the pitch e.g. the likes of Amorim or Postecoglu not being willing to change their style, or say Daniel Levy/Enic at Spurs not being willing to change their wage structure in order to be able to compete for the signature of top players. Benitez proved himself by winning the CL yet he still wasn't backed by H&G. The likes of FSG might be successful businesspeople, but that doesn't preclude them from making highly questionable decisions, something that often happens because they have massive egos and aren't willing to back down or change their way of doing things.

Klopp wasn't a yes man, an attribute that I have no doubt would rub the likes of Edwards and his paymasters up the wrong way. On the other hand we have Slot who seems more like someone who wouldn't want to risk the ire of those above him. He obviously didn't want Chiesa, and his use or non use of other players after a scattergun approach to our summer transfers suggests that he has less say in what tools he is given than some believe.

The players we bought may have been acquired because of reasons such as having a connection to the sporting director e.g. Hughes and Kirkez, or because they felt that there was an opportunity for a FFP or PSR related splurge that might not arise again for a while. You say that they gave Slot half a billion pound to spend, but did Slot himself have half a billion pound to spend on the players he wanted? I'd say no. Did Slot want to get rid of Diaz who was an integral part to his title win? Or was such things out of his hands, just as they seemingly were with the Isak and Ekitike rather than a one or the other scenario?

To me it seems like things are still the same in terms of our manager being employed as more of a coach who has to make the best out of what they are given, rather than an actual manager who has a major say, if not the final say when it comes to player acquisitions.

[Nineteenx]

They would still surely buy/sell players to the formation and style of play set out by the manager

There was a piece about how Wirtz turned down Bayern after meeting with Slot and him explaining where he was him in our plans

It also mentioned Wirtz not wanting to play on the left which is maybe what Bayern had in mind 🤨 they signed Diaz to play there instead

[justme]

just about 2 weeks or a little more left of the transfer window and doesn't look like we'll sign anyone. which is completely wrong. and furthermore doesn't bode well for Slot. since hes not being offered a new contract by the looks of it, so will be gone in the Summer

[Steveo]

Agree does point to a new manager and a reluctance to spend anymore with the current setup,

We will see soon enough

[faridtoxteth]

Not signing a centre back of some kind is a big risk. Are we counting on Endo and Gravenberch to step up? Didn't Trey Nyoni play there in a game? Did I imagine that?.

[jozza800]

We don't know what FSG thought of Klopp. We'll possibly never know for sure, but as far as I'm concerned FSG hired Klopp first and foremost because he had proved that he could be and had been successful whilst only having a rather limited transfer budget to play with, and also whilst having integral players to his team sold from underneath him.

One massive point that many don't seem to be taking into account is the relationship between the manager, the owners, the CEO, and those tasked with sporting and recruitment decisions. Klopp made it known that he wanted more players but that he was denied those things by those who had the final say. It was well known that Klopp and Michael Edwards didn't get on. Now with that being the case it's not hard to imagine a scenario between the two whereby one wants more players of a certain type, whilst the other person who has the final say refuses such requests even if those requests are perfectly reasonable and are being made by someone who has proved themselves.

If someone has a certain way of doing things or a particular way of dealing with people especially those they butt heads with, they are for the most part going to do the same things even if everyone else can see the folly in what they are doing. This seems to be pervasive within the world of football be it on or off the pitch e.g. the likes of Amorim or Postecoglu not being willing to change their style, or say Daniel Levy/Enic at Spurs not being willing to change their wage structure in order to be able to compete for the signature of top players. Benitez proved himself by winning the CL yet he still wasn't backed by H&G. The likes of FSG might be successful businesspeople, but that doesn't preclude them from making highly questionable decisions, something that often happens because they have massive egos and aren't willing to back down or change their way of doing things.

Klopp wasn't a yes man, an attribute that I have no doubt would rub the likes of Edwards and his paymasters up the wrong way. On the other hand we have Slot who seems more like someone who wouldn't want to risk the ire of those above him. He obviously didn't want Chiesa, and his use or non use of other players after a scattergun approach to our summer transfers suggests that he has less say in what tools he is given than some believe.

The players we bought may have been acquired because of reasons such as having a connection to the sporting director e.g. Hughes and Kirkez, or because they felt that there was an opportunity for a FFP or PSR related splurge that might not arise again for a while. You say that they gave Slot half a billion pound to spend, but did Slot himself have half a billion pound to spend on the players he wanted? I'd say no. Did Slot want to get rid of Diaz who was an integral part to his title win? Or was such things out of his hands, just as they seemingly were with the Isak and Ekitike rather than a one or the other scenario?

To me it seems like things are still the same in terms of our manager being employed as more of a coach who has to make the best out of what they are given, rather than an actual manager who has a major say, if not the final say when it comes to player acquisitions.

Which ever way you see it, it strikes me as being very odd that they've gone from being penny pinchers to blowing their load in a single window.

[jozza800]

They would still surely buy/sell players to the formation and style of play set out by the manager

There was a piece about how Wirtz turned down Bayern after meeting with Slot and him explaining where he was him in our plans

It also mentioned Wirtz not wanting to play on the left which is maybe what Bayern had in mind 🤨 they signed Diaz to play there instead

I have no doubt Slot will have been involved in who was brought in. It just seems ridiculous not to consult the chap that will be picking the team / tactics.

I think Wirtz will have been told that the team is going to be built around him.

Just unfortunate that Slot hasn't been able to set up a proper midfield for him.

[Nineteenx]

I have no doubt Slot will have been involved in who was brought in. It just seems ridiculous not to consult the chap that will be picking the team / tactics.

I think Wirtz will have been told that the team is going to be built around him.

Just unfortunate that Slot hasn't been able to set up a proper midfield for him.

We had the best midfield 3 in the league last season 🤦*♂️

Can tell you only became a fan under Souness and didn’t gave the pain of watching him rip up how you’d seen a few managers play very successfully and the disastrous consequences of that - It’s why we didn’t win a title in so long

[Nineteenx]

Also designated playmakers are too easily stifled in the modern game they became obsolete a good while back

It’s an absolute gift to any opposition manager who can set a press and low block
to try and have all your play go through one player

And a massive waste of too many other players individual ability to make something happen within the team to be asked to try and make the play go through one designated player

Not sure why this is so difficult for many to grasp

[Nineteenx]

Which ever way you see it, it strikes me as being very odd that they've gone from being penny pinchers to blowing their load in a single window.

It seems more likely an over confidence in Edwards & Hughes preferring to give Edwards too much credit for Jurgen his set up and his players development, performance & achievements

And maybe a touch of wanting their desired policy of sporting director and assistant identifying the players and buying them for the manager to a model put in place by a big successful spend employing it, which has spectacularly backfired

I’m quite sure Arteta and Guardiola get the players they want

If you look at 3 big spending clubs City and Arsenal are fairing better than Chelsea the former two have the manager picking who he wants

With Arsenal I think injuries and bottling it have prevented them winning a title so far but there’s no denying letting the manager pick the players they and city have both built phenomenal squads with incredible strength in depth

I think either Jurgen thry didn’t want to back him with the money because he’d proved able to do it on a shoestring and him being even more successful in that model by being backed would be at odds with their preferred model

[CCTV]

Fun fact from 19/20 to today, 7 seasons including this one, the top4 big net spenders in the PL are:

1) Manu 1,003 million net
2) Arsenal 947 million net
3) Chelsea 847 million net
4) Spurs 834 million net

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/premier-league/einnahmenausgaben/wettbewerb/GB1/plus/0?ids=a&sa=&saison_id=2019&saison_id_bis=2025&nat= &pos=&altersklasse=&w_s=&leihe=&intern=0

[Steveo]

Which ever way you see it, it strikes me as being very odd that they've gone from being penny pinchers to blowing their load in a single window.

I gave you an answer - it’s a good one.

Because winning the big prizes IS NOT the goal. It is a great by product. The goal in F$G's eyes is maintaining Top 4 - and the CL money that comes along with it. Lower net outlay for more income. Less need to spend on the best targets and profits still rise. Lower risk for nigh on the same reward. The antithesis of what Liverpool FC was envisaged by Shankly. NOt built to win but rather to be like Wengers Arsenal became.. Kerching.


So jozza the generational manager WHO can keep Liverpool FC competitive on a lower budget GETS A LOWER BUDGET. It is assumed that Rodgers and Slot cannot maintain this level without backing more inline with rivals.

This has been and remains WHY I have never rated F$G... and why I maintain that we won what we did mostly due to Jurgen Klopp and despite them.

[Steveo]

Profit Maximisation vs. Win Maximisation
look it up.

If you expect to stay onboard the top 4 gravy train with Jurgen Klopp...on a puny net spend... you can give him a puny net spend and continue your journey. IF you can rinse a Barcelona for a player banking the thick end of £150 million - Great - you might even build top level side.... But the F$G mantra was that's fine... but we ain't gonna help you stay there. We are not sanctioning Virgil/Alisson level signings without selling first to finance it. That isn't the sweet spot of the model.


...IF even after a title win with the team Klopp assembled - you don't expect the same from an Arne Slot - and you feel there's the risk you get kicked off the top 4 gravy train at the next station....you spend the money pinched from Klopp to make up the difference.

PKP - Post Klopp Panic

[justme]

Agree does point to a new manager and a reluctance to spend anymore with the current setup,

We will see soon enough

Yep, could be Alonso in the summer, would work with Wirtz being his former player at Leverkusen.