Define woke

[scientificred]

Lots of mention of this word
Don't quite understand it myself.
Please enlighten me as to your views and let everyone on this forum know what it means to you yourself.

[faridtoxteth]

I think woke is a term used to describe people who have arrived at their position on culture, politics and other social issues, based on media fixations of recent years. that's why I described myself as basically too old to be woke. I am an old dog. Doesn't mean i don't naturally agree with a lot of so called woke ideas, like human rights stuff, equal rights for queer people, and so on. But in my case these are not recent conversions to woke culture. I once stood on the kop and got in a pretty intense argument with another Liverpool fan who was giving John Barnes racial abuse.

[Daffydd]

Woke used to be a word for aware, for people who knew the score, who knew what was really going on.

But then it got sarcastically twisted and now seems to be the new word for 'politically correct'.

Without wanting to sound woke I believe every human being should be valued equally and allowed to express themselves appropriately. But any attempts to force that will meet with inevitable resistance from otherwise decent people.

[Insidious]

I'll bite.

So initially I viewed it as a slang term for those who are keen to address injustices in society, particularly stuff related to racism and sexism.

However as certain types of folks have gotten sillier about it, it's the silly sorts that I'd refer to as "woke" - a derogatory term essentially, for when people overdo it with the perceived injustices of the World.

Let's take a different medium to football. We'll go with acting and we'll go with racism in relation to that. Do I wish for equal opportunities for black actors? Absolutely. If you're good enough for the role, you're good enough for the role. Idris Elba is great. Denzel Washington is great. This to me is just "equal opportunity" stuff and it's only right that actors like this get major roles. I don't consider this "woke".

However, Amazon have made a Lord of the Rings series that features black actors playing elves, one of whom has a very "urban" haircut (I'm not good with names/fashion, but Theo Walcott and Aaron Lennon have both had similar hair) - now, the lore has always portrayed the elves as fair of skin, with long, blonde hair. This is source material. But those making the series have shoe-horned a black actor in because "diversity" (as if skin tone is the only type of diversity going, never mind diversity of thought or physical stature say....) as that is very much the in thing to do these days.

People will say "you have a gripe like that about a fantasy film?" like it's no big deal, but when stuff like that is so on the nose because the powers that be are afraid of cancel culture, it stands out. Just watch advertisements for insurance deals or whatever else and see how many bumbling middle-aged white guys get outsmarted by a woman or a black person - or both. It's fine in principle, but it's just so bleeding obvious what is going on.

To give another example with acting/characters we'll go with sexism. There's a real "strong woman" push these days and you'll see an action sequence with a 5'5 girl with no weigh to her beat up a heavily built fella "because women are strong" - as if physical prowess is the only kind of strength there is. Scarlett Johansson's "Black Widow" will collide with all of the things and land in a superhero stance (when she should be very dead) without a hair out of place. Or Star Wars - one of the recent ones - purple-hair lady (feminists have hair a lot) will put budget Hans Solo "in his place" because men are stupid, presumably. Kathleen Kennedy is a woman you could research - she has her grubby mitts all over Star Wars these days. That is "woke" stuff. The character of Rey kicking the ass of all around her with barely any training - that's some woke shit.

Whereas you'll get a Studio Ghibli film showcasing a different type of "strength" where a woman uses her courage, cunning, wits, determination to navigate her character arc without being a physical tank - that sort of stuff is to be commended and applauded.

I know loads of amazing women who have been through a Hell of a lot. They know they don't have to try and physically take down a fella to prove they are "equals" and it would be nice if some of the general media and particularly the medium of film could catch on to other types of "strength".

When Ghost in the Shell was made (based on a Japanese anime series) Scarlett Johansson was cast as the main character - PLENTY of Starbuck's-swilling white girls in the West were up in arms about "Whitewashing" and that the role should have been given to a Japanese actress. Hilariously, when interviewed, most Japanese folk (not a particularly "woke" nation) didn't give a solitary fuck - their attitude was "she's a good actress, can't wait to see the film".

Cancel culture - woke.
Shoe-horning actors or actresses of a particular ethnic group or gender just to be "diverse" when unrelated to the lore - woke.
"Women should get paid more because they have to wear make-up at work" - woke.
50% of Government members should be black irrespective of their qualifications for the job - woke.

Genuinely all for equal rights. Equal opportunity. I think sanitary products should be free as women have no say in their menstrual cycle for example - but I have been told that my thoughts about showing female characters as over-powered means I "hate women".

Hope that's helped fella. Admittedly a lot of that is "my opinion" rather than objective facts/evidence but it's the way I felt I could best answer the question at this particular time.

[Taksin]

It's a word borrowed from black culture in the US. It was originally used positively by people who saw themselves as being awake in comparison to those of us not yet awake. Now they've stopped using it so it is instead used as a slur by critics of the worldview.

The worldview is all over the universities, more so in the US and Anglospere, but is by now well established in all the important cultural institutions. It is a crazy, Marxist and post-modern deconstruction of the entire historical basis of knowledge and society that has built our civilisation. The view that a man can have children or your mother can be your father is the result of this insistence that nothing you believed to be true is in reality true.

The other side of it is the grievance study that pits different tribes against each other based on which tribe is the most oppressive - i.e. white men - and which the most oppressed.

The whole thing is pathologically resistant to criticism because anyone who has any criticism of the claims, no matter how well reasoned they may be, is open to cancellation and dismissed as sexist, racist, transphobic, colonising, patriarchal etc. so the thing just motors on, untouched by reality.

[Insidious]

The whole thing is pathologically resistant to criticism because anyone who has any criticism of the claims, no matter how well reasoned they may be, is open to cancellation and dismissed as sexist, racist, transphobic, colonising, patriarchal etc. so the thing just motors on, untouched by reality.

I liked your whole post, but this part in particular was such a succinct, concise bit of articulation.

Well played.

[faridtoxteth]

It's like..can a black actor play Hamlet (prince of denmark!) ok let's say yes. can a woman play Hamlet? I think Helen Mirren did and probably loads more. Denzel recently played Macbeth, historically a white scottish king. He was great in it (it's a great film btw). But tom hanks recently said in the media that if he was to play a queer man now, like he did in Philadelphia, then it would be wrong. White actors have played Othello, Lawrence Olivier even blacked up for it. People can't judge anymore what is ok and what's not, because of the oppression of social media.
So if I came out and said i identify myself as a woman and not as a male, then I would be supported by a large section of society. But if i came out and said I identify myself as black or disabled, when i am clearly not, there would be social outrage.
The point is, it's a complex issue, and not just a simple one like the media would like it to be.

[faridtoxteth]

By the way if the BBC are so woke about women's football, then how come the deep colonial mentality behind the 'commonwealth' games gets a pass..

[Daffydd]

By the way if the BBC are so woke about women's football, then how come the deep colonial mentality behind the 'commonwealth' games gets a pass..

Would you care to elaborate?

Obviously the so-called commonwealth came out of the British empire but do the games themselves reflect that?

For me the annoying thing about the BBC coverage of women's football is they mash it together with the mens (maybe fans of women's football are equally annoyed) and of course the usual hype because it's England.

[worldpanel]

Would you care to elaborate?

Obviously the so-called commonwealth came out of the British empire but do the games themselves reflect that?

For me the annoying thing about the BBC coverage of women's football is they mash it together with the mens (maybe fans of women's football are equally annoyed) and of course the usual hype because it's England.

Sidebar question: How long before the manager(ess) of the England team gets offered a job in the Prem?
God knows if they let one of the Neville's do it, surely she could manage a smaller side like one in the Salford area perhaps?

[Taksin]

By the way if the BBC are so woke about women's football, then how come the deep colonial mentality behind the 'commonwealth' games gets a pass..

Because being reasonable is not the aim. The aim is to pursue the agenda, which is ultimately the most complete revolution ever attempted.

That’s why you shouldn’t boo the national anthem, fellow reds. It’s seems like a healthy rebellion due to various injustices but it is actually the rejection of one of the remaining things that unifies us. Once destroyed, the only thing that can unify us is a crazy ideology forced upon us from above. That’s been tried, it doesn’t end well, and in the case of North Korea it may lead to a hell that goes on forever.

North Korea looks to me to represent the world that woke ideology leads to.

[faridtoxteth]

That is an interesting question.
I didn't watch many of the games.
Is she a really good manager? Didn't she always play the same first eleven and then later bring on the same subs? I didn't see much to make me think she was a game changing tactician.
But I wouldn't be against the idea. But some of these prem big ego players who are so up themselves, they might struggle with being managed by her. Also the men's game is not the same as the women's game, despite what everyone and his dog are telling us now. Look at the quality of the goal keeping for a start.

[Daffydd]

Sidebar question: How long before the manager(ess) of the England team gets offered a job in the Prem?
God knows if they let one of the Neville's do it, surely she could manage a smaller side like one in the Salford area perhaps?

A long time. I think we'll have an openly gay England (men's team) captain first.

[tim_ev]

Define woke?

Taking the knee!

[miller0863]

Don’t really want to get into this particular question as the whole subject annoys me intensely.
However, I will say that the line.. “ equal rights for queer people” will not be bettered if this debate goes on for a hundred pages.

It sums up the differences between the generations perfectly