Brexit thread 2 Electric Boogaloo

[dicko1969]

Back on track

So BREXIT

what happens next?

Btw social media meltdown, brexit 'discussion' looks worse than an lfc forum after defeat.

[CCTV]

Idk CC, I'm a pretty materialistic kind of guy (I think a lot of it is down to growing up in a crumbling post communist Eastern European state). The "society is sicker" opinion is definitely one that has merit to it and I share in some regards, but far too many factors play into it for me to really take it seriously without some in-depth consideration.
For example 20 years ago you were a teenager / young adult and had no internet, so less access to news. The media functioned slightly differently back then too I'd imagine. It is definitely an interesting point. Have to think about it.

@stevie

I'm not certain that's the case. A well functioning worker produces more wealth and therefore pumps up the GDP. If being mentally stable is a serious factor in being a well functioning worker, I can see it being of great interest to economists. On the flip side antidepressants and psychotherapy cost a fortune and generate tax revenue.

You seem to think or portray increasing material wealth and more equality as exclusive avenues. Equality here not being a communist definition, but more a measure of the level of financial inequality.
Do you want a healthier society or more material wealth. But this is a false dichotomy.
Maybe you'd prefer material wealth over societal health if it was an exclusive choice. Ethically such a choice would meet with scrutiny.

Communism is demonstrably flawed. It doesnt allow for enough inequality.
Similarly increasing financial inequality is demonstrably flawed.
Where the golden mean lies is a mystery in an objective sense to a point. The best answer so far suggest it was in the previous economic model and below the levels we see in western societies today.

Innovation occurred before this rise in inequality, during it and will do so after this economic model passes.

[CCTV]

The country or county define probably if you are poor, even a postcode.

It really depends how you define being poor.

I remember a guy called mamadou from Mali, visited me. Said to me I was rich, because i had a car, a tv, a fridge, and food in it.

The thing is talking to a friend , who said to me that his 3 yo watches tv and is constantly bombarded with messages to buy .

Toys . McDonald's. Technology.
Amazing how companies can start the psychological mind games so early.

"We are all consumer addicts"

You'll have 5g before people dont have to walk miles for water

[CCTV]

Children are the number one target audience of advertisers in the USA.

[CCTV]

Back on track

So BREXIT

what happens next?

Btw social media meltdown, brexit 'discussion' looks worse than an lfc forum after defeat.

The UK will honour article 50 and leave without a deal or it will not honour the triggering of article 50 and extend the period.
May's deal seems to be a dead duck.

[Balinkay]

I don't think more money -> more inequality. Like I said, build up that middle class and look at your country prosper.

I would prefer being rich and my neighbour being richer than both of us being equally poor though.

[CCTV]

I don't think more money -> more inequality. Like I said, build up that middle class and look at your country prosper.

I would prefer being rich and my neighbour being richer than both of us being equally poor though.

I get your second paragraph, that's natural.

But I'm not sure you get the concept though.

More inequality-> shrinking middle class & increased poverty within a society - based on analysis.

[CCTV]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/ireland-s-youth-are-no-big-fans-of-priests-politicians-or-police-1.3061302%3fmode=amp

"Ireland’s youth are no big fans of priests, politicians or police
Only one group fared worse than the three Ps in survey – no prizes for guessing which.

Irish millennials have expressed an almost complete lack of confidence in priests, politicians and police, who used to be considered the three pillars of Irish society.

Only 2 per cent of Irish people aged 18-34 told researchers working on behalf of the European Broadcasting Union they had complete faith in religion, while 56 per cent said they had absolutely no trust in it, according to a Europe-wide survey of 18-34-year-olds.

The survey also showed that 35 per cent of young adults in Ireland believe all politicians to be corrupt, and a further 41 per cent expressed the view that at least some of them are up to no good.

The news is not all bad for politicians, however: although just 22 per cent of Ireland’s young adults expressed a good deal of confidence in Ireland’s political class, the percentage was still sufficiently high to rank Ireland as the most trustworthy country of the 18 European states surveyed when it came to politicians’ honesty.

The news wasn’t great for An Garda Síochána, either, as 46 per cent said they distrusted the force to some extent.

Children of the revolution
The survey also suggested that the political world should be on its guard, as more than half of Ireland’s millennials appeared to be prepared to join a “large-scale uprising against the generation in power”.

The results all come from Generation What Europe, a landmark 149-question survey taken by nearly a million young people across Europe – including more than 20,000 in the Republic – covering a range of topics from politics to happiness, education, nationhood and immigration.

Despite the growth of nationalism and populist politics, there seems to be no appetite for a ban on immigration across Europe, with 73 per cent saying they believed immigration made society richer, and Spain, Germany and Denmark all supporting immigration by more than 80 per cent.

An overwhelming 98 per cent said they could not be happy without music, while 73 per cent tied their happiness to books and a somewhat suspicious 63 per cent said they could get along without their mobile phone. That percentage fell to a slightly more convincing 52 per cent when the internet was involved.

While politicians, the guards and religion all fared badly in the trust stakes, they were not the least-trusted groups. That dubious honour belongs to the fourth estate, with 43 per cent of those aged 18-34 saying they had no trust in the media and a further 44 per cent expressing a degree of mistrust.

All told only 1 per cent said they had total faith in the media."

A good deal of confidence and we are typically highest or second highest where I've seen these types of polls.

It amazes me how European countries have a terrible opinion of politicians they know in their own country. Yet on the larger macro level when these same chancers go to Europe they seem to think this level of politics is much grander, while certainly not to blame.
It is baffling imo ^^

[CCTV]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/over-half-of-young-people-in-ireland-would-join-a-mass-uprising-against-the-government-a7703141.html%3famp

Another article...
"Fifty four per cent of 18 - 34-year-olds said they would take part in a “large scale uprising against the generation in power if it happened in the next days or months”......Forty five per cent said they didn’t trust politics “at all”.....However, 25 per cent said very few politicians were corrupt, a figure lower than most of those in the same generation who were surveyed in 14 other countries.....Eighty per cent of men and 78 per cent of women said they could be happy without religious belief and just 20 per cent said they couldn’t...The police were not trusted by a large portion of people surveyed said did not fully trust the force....However, the army scored highly on trust levels, with nearly 50 per cent of people trusting it to a large extent."

Theyd support the uprising til the they're told they might have no money in the atms.

It's interesting that in Brexit people bemoan the instability of brexit and the old for Brexit. Yet the old tend to be charged with voting to protect their economic interests. Yet here they've the most at risk immediately and have decided (allegedly they voted heavily for Brexit, or just a stereotype?) to risk their wealth for the future !

It's ironic imo listening to holier than thou remainers revel that with many old people dying they might overturn the referendum.

[CCTV]

In previous eu polls Ireland (21%) was second to Germany (23%) in believing 'politicians are sincere at least most of the the time'.
As low as 7% in parts of the EU.

[Balinkay]

In previous eu polls Ireland (21%) was second to Germany (23%) in believing 'politicians are sincere at least most of the the time'.
As low as 7% in parts of the EU.

Pff. 7% of my compatriots are deluded then.

On a more serious note, the whole "more inequality -> shrinking middle class and more poverty" I'd have to look at more precisely. I don't know much about economics, so it's hardly a surprise I don't immediately see an intuitive reason as to why that should be the case, besides the obvious sense, which would then render the statement a tautology.

[dicko1969]

Tbh

All politicians all over the world are corrupt.

Ask Brazilians about Lula

Or Venezuelans...

Police... let's look at what happened 15 April 1989

Priests. Jeez how sad it is that even in the circle of religion.


What's the other p?

Kotlers 4 Ps ?
Price Place Product Promotion.

[dicko1969]

Money doesn't create happiness
But if you don't have it you are miserable

[CCTV]

A tautology is apt here imo.
https://tcf.org/content/commentary/a-tale-of-two-recoveries-wealth-inequality-after-the-great-recession/
Looks at it in USA, holds here if only a little less.

https://piie.com/blogs/realtime-economic-issues-watch/deconstructing-branko-milanovics-elephant-chart-does-it-show
A critique/adjustment ventured to the original elephant graph, which is presented.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vox.com/platform/amp/policy-and-politics/2018/2/2/16868838/elephant-graph-chart-global-inequality-economic-growth
An updated graph with another decade and adjustments/critique amended as best I can tell.

Read a book as a pre teen (name escapes me has a reddish cover) in the 90s about the loss of employment to automation and China in particular of the developing nations. The idea/strategy to create increased service industries, design things to break more easily to promote more service industries and further extend hours of business to create new jobs in services. These were largely meaningless jobs made to keep people busy in general.
We think North Korea is mad for giving people tiny scissors to cut grass in public spaces, meaningless jobs to keep them busy. We pretty much did the same.

[CCTV]

Money doesn't create happiness
But if you don't have it you are miserable

Well said. You need just enough n no more really. But if you have none it's really tough to get any.
The euphoria of winning the euromillions dissipates after 6 months and you'll very likely be as happy as you were before.
If you desire wealth over meaning you'll be miserable.

The 4th Pillar was the press/media