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Master Tactician
Absolutely.Originally Posted by Steveo
Problem is we can't have those sorts of players a) all throughout the squad and b) without selling players first.
The midfield situation is baffling but by and large I think we've done very well in the transfer market.
First Team
I think he does yes from an energy and mobile point of view.
You need a mix of good ball players and runners especially in EPL.
The summer window was a complete mess we basically decided NOBODY could improve our CM after Choo Choo.
That is really really bad planning and i'll go against the grain I dont blame FSG for that.
All it takes is a bad window or two then you get caught up if others sign well its clear we've been reeled in.
Rowdy Yates
I disagree. FSG are the root problem. They have been counting pennies since we won number 6.
Good luck to them on Klopp’s departure.
On Hendo even at his peak - which was never that much of a peak for me Henderson is not making much of a difference to this team, in this state.
Surrounded by top class players in their prime - he was effective. He has never been a match winner and he isn’t carrying anyone. Model pro - yes - but there are many.
Last edited by Steveo; 2nd October 2022 at 10:34 AM.
First Team
Ok if the budget was to spend say £90-100m we spent £65m on a player who is stuck on the bench.
Whose decision was it to spend the bulk of that above on Darwin was it FSG or other people ?
Lets forget about how much we spend or what we dont spend look at the facts.
That money should have gone towards a CM that was the main priority somebody got it badly wrong.
Milner/Hendo were given longer contracts who decided or wanted that ?
I agree we should spend abit more but we now seem to be obsessed with data/right player coming in etc.
Talk of Bellingham is laughable he isnt coming here in a million years plus he seems abit of a circus.
As I said you dont need to be world class to be effective and one thing Hendo had was he was in your face and never injured that is a plus for me.
Ward-Prowse ive said before would do well here but of course we not sign him.
First Team
Yep I hate the fact "I was right instead of I was wrong" but i've been saying this for a while now
Didn't build on winning shit, instead we go backwards slowly...... lack of investment..... and now we are here.
Henderson is mr.average..... in a perfect system for him.
First Team
Gini and Hendo are and were vastly superior players to any of our other midfielders to have played Jurgen's system
Fab's still thieving a living off the back of his first half season playing that high destroyer role
In Fab's absence in 19-20 we had a run of game that was as near perfection in playing the pressing and counter pressing game that any side in the entire history of the game has ever produced, we literally completely snuffed out and smothered the life out of every single side we played, restricting 4 or 5 in that run to no shots or only one shot at our goal and literally zero possession in our half, and that was with Ox playing 3 or 4 of those games at LFWD and RCM and Keita, Lallana and Milner playing the RCM position
Hendo was our accidental playmaker in that run too, you might persistently knock his technique, but he plays and played those medium to long quickly up and down balls as unerringly accurately as anyone I have seen in the game and they get there quicker than anyone else's giving our player time and space, whereas others too flighty balls of that type allow defenders to head clear or be on top of our player as they receive the ball.
Yes he doesn't have and has never had the overall incredible flair, technique, cuteness and ability in possession based sides of Modric, De Bruyne or others, nowhere near it, but at playing the right type of passes that connected the runs of our forwards and full backs in our system he remains our best passer of the ball and most effective passer of the ball, as he demonstrated again yesterday
Fabinho isn't a midfielder, the incredible drop of in our pressing and counter pressing game through Fab's re-introduction into the side and his complete inability to play the types of balls Hendo can and had been doing to prompt and connect the runs of our forwards and full backs was the first absolutely massive mistake Jurgen made as our manager, a catastrophic error he continues to repeat a third season on
Fab needs to go, we desperately need a proven and genuine top class or emerging top class No6 who can also operate at No8, Thiago is very good without the ball, him playing RCM with Hendo at No6 and Gini at LCM controller could possibly have been even better than the near perfection of that 15 games run in Fab's absence, because Thiago's positioning is better than the other players who played RCM in that run, it isn't however anywhere like as good as Hendo's and Gini's was and even with Thiago and Hendo either side of him Fab still looks shite and like a RB playing in midfield
Just go and watch some extended highlights of that run in Fab's absence and watch our games and the positions he takes on players, if he takes one at all, how he gets wrong side of them, doesn't know when he can go and win it or when he should stay where he is or move to block the line of a pass, he's honestly absolutely fucking clueless
"If Everton were playing at the bottom of my garden, i'd close the curtains”
First Team
I agree that it wasn't just FSG who fucked up. Klopp equally takes the blame, that midfield has been the elephant in the room for too long and I think maybe he's thought he didn't need to add to ot after doing so well last season. Clearly wrong.
I also don't think he had anything to do with signing Nunez. He's not his type of player.
First Team
I see a question about prime Hendo. The Hendo of 2013/2014 was the best box to box we had since that time. High octane he was mental. He was so crucial we may have had 2 more PL title if he was not suspended. 2017-2020 he was brilliant as well but that season foe me his best.
First Team
Ja the Nunez signing looks like it might not be him but again Managers try to reinvent themselves so we wont know.
I must say why Haaland is thriving Pep immediately made him the main even though there are so many top players there. He discarded Sterling and Jesus as a clesr sign also that it is Haaland. Their entire game has changed it is all fast to Haaland no messing around. More crosses, quick through balls.
Nunez messed up by getting the red card it halted his start however let us play him chamge formation, tactics whatever and take it from there. Yesterday Klopp sacrificed to accomodate Firmino coming deep or Firmino came deep to allow Salah to run in behind. Dependson how u see it, it could be tactic to accomodate strength or weakness. So he must do the dame for Nunez. Not just gor Nunez for himslef and jos squad. He doesnt have the agile, hard working, tactical midfield he had before. So he needs to also compensate for that.
A 4 man midfield will solve that, even if he moves to a back 3 to allow Trent who is his QB to mostly just be that. However there is going to have to be adapting or else his final season os going to ne remembered by lots of humiliating defeats.
First Team
Indeed.
We have made some decisions that prove to be wise, on paper at least. Jota’s arrival gave us the chance to reduce Firmino's minutes and he'll take up his space in the squad when Bobby moves on - even if the roles are different. Konate's arrival allows us to rotate Matip and Ibou should eventually take Joel's spot. Tsimikas gives us the option of easing the burden on Robertson.
Where it has gone wrong is the succession planning in midfield - and those decisions have been ongoing. Oxlade-Chamberlain hasn't proved the best use of our money. Many of us championed his contract extension, seeing it as "doing right" by a player who suffered a terrible injury. Our loyalty in this regard is commendable, but I am sure there is some (private) regret in that regard. Keeping on that subject of loyalty to a fault, I think many will feel that with the gift of hindsight it would have been wiser to let Milner leave, with his head held high after we genuinely competed for an unprecedented Quad. Henderson received a generous contract extension - will the passage of time suggest it was too generous? We don't yet know.
We have older midfielders (inevitable deterioration comes over time) and younger mids who aren't yet ready to have the side built around them. Where we have come undone is that the lads who should have acted as the "bridge" (Ox and Keita) haven't worked out as we had hoped.
People can (and will) lay blame at FSG's door for certain things - and it is certainly clear that we need some investment in the coming windows, but there are definitely some issues I don't attribute (directly) to them. Some aspects of our recruitment and succession-planning haven't worked out and it's at its worst in the centre of the park.
Last season's Herculean effort has taken a toll. There is a lot of football in the legs of some of these players and the mental toll of having to be close-to-perfect to compete with Cheats must be overwhelming. Our lads outperformed themselves.
I do however still have some hope - not of a title challenge this season certainly, but I do think we can avoid the season capitulating utterly. If we believe that form is temporary and class is permanent, then it's likely fair to suggest that while the lads exceeded their level last season, they are below par this season. We should find our "level" sooner or later, which will be somewhere between last season's heroics and this season's seemingly extended hangover.
I also can't help but believe that a few lads (in key areas of the pitch might I add....) aren't performing to their absolute peak in terms of sprints/tackles etc ahead of this poorly-timed World Cup, for fear of injury and thus missing the Tournament. Nobody is going to have me believe that what we have seen of Van Dijk of late for example is a reflection of his true level. I do expect some lads to perform better for us in the January-May spell than what we have seen this far.
Anyway - the midfield needs sorting. If there is a positive to be found, then it should be noted that it cannot be THAT hard to find players that are better than a "Winter" Milner, an unavailable Ox or an in-and-out Keita. Pep Lijnders has spoken of only going for lads that genuinely improve the starting XI but I think that's a little inflexible. Even if we went for one "top talent" and supplemented that signing by getting a youngish lad on the cusp of good things (age 22 say) before his value explodes and a Bosmer, we would massively improve the situation in the centre of the pitch and should still (hopefully) have funds to pay for the Anfield Road End without having to take out any questionable loans.
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