The press and counter press

[Nineteenx]

I have eyes and understand the game

Again here you are with an inane question like a child

[JockStrap]

I’m just looking for a basis to have a proper discussion.

You’re telling me that we pass it backwards more often after winning the ball back. OK. What are the stats for that across the top 4 teams this season?

[Nineteenx]

Go and have a look and you come and tell me if I’m wrong I see it all the time and I see other sides win it and play it immediately forward or one back then forward

I see these other sides hit switches to find the player on the other side in time and space where we’re taking 4 to 4 sideways passes to get to thrn by which time they’re no longer in space

I have a neurology very adept and recognising and remembering patterns and mechanics in things lots of different things not just football

When I was a lad delivering papers I knew every other round after doing it once other people would need to go with a sheet for a week or two just to remember the one

That kind of reflects my insight into the game compared to yours

CCTV tried to tell me Gomez was a top CB using stats 😂 I used my eyes and the situations he was defending and level of protection afforded to him and insisted he was nothing like ever being one, and look how that turned out

Go do something to evolve your brain

[JockStrap]

Well that’s not how it works. I’m not going to go off and do your research for you.

You made the claim, you show the proof. When you have the stats, then you have a starting point. Otherwise it’s like the rest of your posts. Hot air.

[Nineteenx]

No pal it see it very clearly in every game

The game is there to be watched appreciated and understood with your own eyes and brain

Recognition oh vital and critical information what works and what doesn’t and why and patterns of play

And to see the ball before they see it because your brain recognises the run and position of a player and that they’re on to be released because it’s ingrained in it patterns and positions you’ve seen over and over it recognises as best practice having the greater chance of amounting to something

When it’s set perfectly to go forward quickly, etc etc etc I see it all and that’s the difference between you and I

[Nineteenx]

The games for watching and learning and creating your own internal database not pouring over meaningless stats you say prove a point Gomez is testament to you not going like CCTV

That’s why he could never understand why 4231 wouldn’t work with our players, stats is all he works off, thry don’t show the positioning movement supporting each other, when a players on to be released when they’re not, these are things ingrained in the brain over thousands of hours of watching the game and understanding it

[JockStrap]

You can assume I'm not going to take your word for anything.

Either provide stats to back up your claim or shut up about it.

[Kev0909]

I don't know if you've noticed yet but teams have adopted and done it very well how to counter the press... in my opinion we're now seeing more direct football in the prem.... compared to recent seasons, which is why I say I think the prem has got more dull in general.

I don't get the obsession.

Sunderland is a good example, least passes in the prem and flying considering they was candiates to go down, it's a sign of the times... look at forest last season.

Us and city have the most passes so far, because we're so good at passing it around sideways backwards and all around yet create very little..... we also have the most average posession.....

A average game for us is pass it around aimlessly... let the other team get back and reshape.... then 1 direct ball on the counter, goal for the other team happy christmas- maybe not quite like that but you get my drift.

Yes pressing hard is good to try win the ball back, but has many negatives, getting hit on the counter easily... players being "tired" easily and run down towards the end of the season, like many times with Klopp... things are changing it's as simple as that, when was the last time you've seen a constant exciting attacking team pass pass goal with great movements and flair ?

[Nineteenx]

The lack of our own quality press to force mistakes and attack directly from there is sorely missing

We’ve been really direct the last 10 years

Had an incredible press and smothered teams, nicked it if thrn in their own half after our attack broke down and went straight for goal in as few passes as possible

We were always a very gifted but direct and playing the percentages in a good way team

We’d play that long diagonal for a run in behind or to bring it down in front of the defender left to right or right to left regularly always backing it up with LCM LB or RCM RB making a run supporting that ball to win any second ball and the whole team moving up to new pressing positions to win any second ball too then quickly and directly attack from there

it works against low blocks a player is released in behind directly, or through laying it back to be released through the channel or by us winning the second ball as a new point of attack the low block isn’t set for

When you’re playing slow tempo short passes it’s really easy for the low block to move side to side with it and defend it easily

[Kev0909]

Yeah I agree with you, especially the last bit it's really frustrating how slow we are, we give other teams all day to get organised and behind the ball, it's far too slow... and in my opinion that's what makes us so boring to watch these days, but it's not just us either, the problem is it's hard work for us to score most of the team yet teams hit us on the counter and score out of nowhere far too often, it's not a good mix hence the results.

I hope things change

Think we could do with a player with flair/pace.. just a exciting player, you know? we miss diaz in that regards.