Match Thread FA Cup: Man City v Liverpool

[teesred]

The sense of inevitability once they scored is arguably the damning bit for me.

I actually thought we were "okay" for the first 33/34 minutes and yet the game is absolutely gone by half-time. That level of capacity for wilt within the squad is the antithesis of the fighting spirit we would have seen under Benitez (until 09/10) or Klopp.

There's a particular performance we had where the feeling was exactly the same in terms of the lack of confidence, it was years ago, maybe under Rodgers (?) but could have been before - if anyone can work it out I'd be pleased as I don't recall the final score (unhelpful) but I am almost certain it was against Arsenal and that Glen Johnson was in the squad.

Anyway - I'm almost certain we were 2-0 up in the match and the opposition scored (ball-park 65th minute) and even though we were still 2-1 up in the match and still winning, the players all looked absolutely despondent - we subsequently went on to lose the game.

The mental fragility we had at the time, for our players to believe a game was gone when we still had a one-goal lead, was one of the most alarming displays of a lack of self-belief that you could imagine - and it has to be said that we look like that right now, which is frankly pretty sad after the decade of "intensity is our identity" we had under Jürgen.

Wednesday is some ask - we're not good enough in either box and you wouldn't back us to control the middle either. It'd take one of those performances where everyone digs in and we're incredibly efficient with our chances (golf club Bellamy celebration at the Camp Nou sort of game) for us to get out of that game and you wouldn't back Slot or the lads to produce just now.

Deflating afternoon that - if we somehow find something for Wednesday then someone (likely the travelling fans, if anyone) will deserve huge credit.

Agree fully Sid. This is a crazy situation when you compare it to how we were feeling this time last year. It's glum and looks like a long road back.

I just can't fathom how they've become so easy to beat and the fight has disappeared. Players like Van Dijk, Salah,Konate should not be accepting it but they look forlorn.
Slot has been the catalyst for a lot of this seasons shite but those players also have to accept they've not been anywhere close to good enough. There's not liking a system yes but there's also personal standards that they're fallen well below.

Like I said earlier I just don't see where we win our next game. Every single team we play knows how soft we are and it's easy for them. Either outrun us or score first and you're likely winning the game.

[Bredred]

We were equal to City today in all but one department. Possession, chances etc...
Were we we totally crap , was defending (ie closing down), we were wide open against them, every City player in acres of space, making runs unopposed. Our so called bck four was a disgrace.
kannoti on the right wing FFS, VD covering right back you just could not make it up.
I cannot believe Slot cannot see it, so the players must be still doing their own thing.
Slot was finished in November, he could not control then team.
If they put s shift in to suit themselves they could very well beat PSG.
But it wont be down to Slot.

[Insidious]

Agree fully Sid. This is a crazy situation when you compare it to how we were feeling this time last year. It's glum and looks like a long road back.

I just can't fathom how they've become so easy to beat and the fight has disappeared. Players like Van Dijk, Salah,Konate should not be accepting it but they look forlorn.
Slot has been the catalyst for a lot of this seasons shite but those players also have to accept they've not been anywhere close to good enough. There's not liking a system yes but there's also personal standards that they're fallen well below.

Like I said earlier I just don't see where we win our next game. Every single team we play knows how soft we are and it's easy for them. Either outrun us or score first and you're likely winning the game.

It's wild, really is.

Depth is one of them, drop-off of regulars is another - with our defence for example - specifically the centre-backs, we've seen a drop-off from both Van Dijk and Konaté, with all of Gomez, Endo and Leoni (Leoni was an injury obviously) playing less than 150 League minutes this season.

So you're seeing seemingly tired players who are underperforming that aren't getting a reprieve from low-confidence spells, nor are having their position challenged - so poor form is going unpunished as they aren't dropped to the bench to light a fire under their arses.

That's only one facet of one area of our team. Soft at the back, not clinical at the front, failing to control the middle.

It's piss-poor. Much of it is on Slot - though I, like you, agree on the personal standards thing. Some players this season, including players I really like, have been "quiet" to put it politely.

It'll make for a fascinating book or two for the right writer in future - the transition from the end of the Klopp era, Slot winning the League in his first year after a minimalist window, huge investment, massive drop-off...... it's a compelling situation, much like the massive downfall at Man United - but boy is it insufferable for us Reds to bear witness to, given our lack of neutrality.

Regarding the personal standards thing, what would Slot give for some of those meant to contribute to our attack being in the prime of their careers and in form. I'm sure someone will think I am taking away from the incredible work that Jürgen did here (I'm not) when I say this, but having Firmino, Mane, Salah, Robertson and Trent - and most of them during "peak" years - was certainly helpful for those matches where a side needed bailed out on the day.

The current five equivalents of those players just now would be, what.....

Isak - freak injury
Ekitike - probably not yet reached his prime
Salah - regrettably passes his prime
Kerkez - probably not yet reached his prime
Frimpong - probably not yet reached his prime

......who have not been tearing up trees by comparison. In theory, if that cluster of players (add or replace Gakpo, Wirtz, whoever if you do wish, this isn't about attacking individual players) is yielding a little bit more of a return then you'd fancy we would have even 5 more points or so across the season, in which case you'd likely come to the end of the season slightly more respectfully -

- Champion's League quarter-final
- FA Cup quarter-final
- probably finish 4th

- which would still be an incredible disappointment relative to last season's accomplishments, but we'd at least be less stressed about the prospect of next season. This squad needs further rebuilding work and the next manager needs backing, so that Champion's League spot; well, we know how imperative it is.

Bleugh, we are where we are. The next 3 games (PSG, Fulham, PSG) will certainly give us something to be invested in, but I can't say I'm looking forward to it.

I'm already thinking more about next season. There's a number of our individuals I'm excited about and if we can get them into the right system and style of play, I think we could - COULD mind you - begin to get the sort of interest levels again that we had in 06/07, 07/08 and 08/09 under Rafa or 15/16, 16/17 and 17/18 under Klopp.

- Mamardashvili
- Frimpong
- Kerkez
- Jacquet
- Leoni
- Gravenberch
- Szoboszlai
- Wirtz
- Ngumoha
- Ekitike
- Isak

Not all of them youngsters, but a number are - getting more energy and quality around them, I see potential for a very tidy little side.

I just hope we can see this season out and squeak 5th so as to help bolster this lot. The conditions for them to thrive are all wrong right now - get these lads a refresh and some help, they can grow.

I mean, shit, look how low Arsenal went for a while as an entity and now they're flying under f**king Arteta - are we really to believe that we are doomed to repeat the 90s going forward?

We've a cluster of good talent here, with genuine opportunity for growth - we'd better not shaft it. In the right set-up, with the right man at the helm, some of these lads can be excellent - hopefully they get the chance to sign and I sincerely hope that any that aren't currently pulling their full weight can find the fire in themselves so as not to waste the talent they're blessed to have.

[faridtoxteth]

Do the players want to see Slot gone, even as a priority over winning games and trophies?
Felt like the last Brendan game today (was it Stoke?)

[Steveo]

No the Stoke humiliation was the back end of the season prior - last game before Brendan was sacked - announced an hour after the FT whistle) was v the BS

[Insidious]

Do the players want to see Slot gone, even as a priority over winning games and trophies?
Felt like the last Brendan game today (was it Stoke?)

The Stoke one was a 6-1 loss and was the last game of Brendan's last full season, yeah.

His last match for us was the 1-1 against Everton in the October - I think he was sacked within an hour of that result.

You're absolutely right though, feels like those "final days" - I hope those who make the decisions learn from the previous error - they kept Brendan on to give him one more go when they shouldn't have - hope they don't repeat the mistake.

[teesred]

It's wild, really is.

Depth is one of them, drop-off of regulars is another - with our defence for example - specifically the centre-backs, we've seen a drop-off from both Van Dijk and Konaté, with all of Gomez, Endo and Leoni (Leoni was an injury obviously) playing less than 150 League minutes this season.

So you're seeing seemingly tired players who are underperforming that aren't getting a reprieve from low-confidence spells, nor are having their position challenged - so poor form is going unpunished as they aren't dropped to the bench to light a fire under their arses.

That's only one facet of one area of our team. Soft at the back, not clinical at the front, failing to control the middle.

It's piss-poor. Much of it is on Slot - though I, like you, agree on the personal standards thing. Some players this season, including players I really like, have been "quiet" to put it politely.

It'll make for a fascinating book or two for the right writer in future - the transition from the end of the Klopp era, Slot winning the League in his first year after a minimalist window, huge investment, massive drop-off...... it's a compelling situation, much like the massive downfall at Man United - but boy is it insufferable for us Reds to bear witness to, given our lack of neutrality.

Regarding the personal standards thing, what would Slot give for some of those meant to contribute to our attack being in the prime of their careers and in form. I'm sure someone will think I am taking away from the incredible work that Jürgen did here (I'm not) when I say this, but having Firmino, Mane, Salah, Robertson and Trent - and most of them during "peak" years - was certainly helpful for those matches where a side needed bailed out on the day.

The current five equivalents of those players just now would be, what.....

Isak - freak injury
Ekitike - probably not yet reached his prime
Salah - regrettably passes his prime
Kerkez - probably not yet reached his prime
Frimpong - probably not yet reached his prime

......who have not been tearing up trees by comparison. In theory, if that cluster of players (add or replace Gakpo, Wirtz, whoever if you do wish, this isn't about attacking individual players) is yielding a little bit more of a return then you'd fancy we would have even 5 more points or so across the season, in which case you'd likely come to the end of the season slightly more respectfully -

- Champion's League quarter-final
- FA Cup quarter-final
- probably finish 4th

- which would still be an incredible disappointment relative to last season's accomplishments, but we'd at least be less stressed about the prospect of next season. This squad needs further rebuilding work and the next manager needs backing, so that Champion's League spot; well, we know how imperative it is.

Bleugh, we are where we are. The next 3 games (PSG, Fulham, PSG) will certainly give us something to be invested in, but I can't say I'm looking forward to it.

I'm already thinking more about next season. There's a number of our individuals I'm excited about and if we can get them into the right system and style of play, I think we could - COULD mind you - begin to get the sort of interest levels again that we had in 06/07, 07/08 and 08/09 under Rafa or 15/16, 16/17 and 17/18 under Klopp.

- Mamardashvili
- Frimpong
- Kerkez
- Jacquet
- Leoni
- Gravenberch
- Szoboszlai
- Wirtz
- Ngumoha
- Ekitike
- Isak

Not all of them youngsters, but a number are - getting more energy and quality around them, I see potential for a very tidy little side.

I just hope we can see this season out and squeak 5th so as to help bolster this lot. The conditions for them to thrive are all wrong right now - get these lads a refresh and some help, they can grow.

I mean, shit, look how low Arsenal went for a while as an entity and now they're flying under f**king Arteta - are we really to believe that we are doomed to repeat the 90s going forward?

We've a cluster of good talent here, with genuine opportunity for growth - we'd better not shaft it. In the right set-up, with the right man at the helm, some of these lads can be excellent - hopefully they get the chance to sign and I sincerely hope that any that aren't currently pulling their full weight can find the fire in themselves so as not to waste the talent they're blessed to have.

I definitely think there's a group of players who are way better than the shite we've seen this season.
It's also worth noting too that we are seeing the end of atleast four of the best players in premier league history. Ali,Robbo,Salah and Virgil. All definitely beyond their prime but I still expect them to uphold standards. Robbo and Ali I dont think have dropped in terms of effort and attitude ( it's just age) but Van Dijk and Salah I think definitely have, for what reasons we will one day find out. I've only seen the goals from today but it looks like Virgil has had a mare and it's not a one off thing, he's been poor all season and I do worry now that it's time for him to either go or be prepared to be a squad player. I've been dreading saying that like I dreaded Gerrard hanging up hos boots.
The side will feel like it's lost a form of security when he's gone but on this seasons showings it would be the right decision. I'd hope he can pull it out if the bag for another manager but one thing that will be obvious is that if these players start puling their fingers out for a new manager then they've let the fans down.

Like you've said before we're likely going to go through some flux and transition seasons, last year looks like it really was a one off but if we bring the right guy in then it hopefully won't be massively painful.

[jozza800]

Absolutely zero debate that Jurgen would get far more out of these players.

[pob]

They made a complete mess of things in the summer.

And it's going to set us back years.

[justincredible]

Do the players want to see Slot gone, even as a priority over winning games and trophies?
Felt like the last Brendan game today (was it Stoke?)

https://x.com/Connor_LFC8/status/2040417491030041082

[Insidious]

And it's going to set us back years.

That will depend on a few things -

- Who the Manager is
- Whether we have a decent budget this Summer, ie, we qualify for the Champion's League
- How well we recruit (and sell) in the upcoming Summer, January, Summer trio of transfer windows

We're in a really weird position whereby there is plenty of talent here of a good age, but they need to be supported and supplemented in the right way to get the best out of them.

There's a sense in some pockets of the internet where people seem to think we're about to repeat the lean spell of the 1990s for silverware and capacity to challenge. Whilst we're a bit soft right now and are lacking in identity and mental toughness, we really ought to have enough talent (hopefully complimented with some steel and intensity soon) to have a better season in 26/27 and/or 27/28.

Some pace, some goals and someone who fancies themselves as a Mascherano clones would certainly be a welcome tonic.

[redebreck]

They made a complete mess of things in the summer.

FSG should get rid of Slot and those two.

[Insidious]

Absolutely zero debate that Jurgen would get far more out of these players.

Indeed - and right now it looks like a number of Managers would.

Which at least means the squad, whilst certainly imbalanced, isn't by any means unworkable - but we seriously need to get our recruitment absolutely perfect this Summer.

[RedMagic]

Van Dijk admits that the team "gave up".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/cz670q6583jo

[justme]

was just going to post that RedMagic..


Imagine him saying that? guess he had say something..How about him saying. I was down right fucking useless yesterday, I cocked up on 2 of the first 2 goals. I gave away a penalty and played on the Man-city player for the second

Instead of the team "giving up" he gave up with his wretched, "i'm a sublime player that can float across the field" and make defending look so easy... Nah you've been a complete waste of space all season. Like Konate who thinks he deserves more than 150 grand a week. he should be asking for a deduction not an increase..