Brexit thread 2 Electric Boogaloo

[Nineteenx]

@CCTV it is national government to blame, over much of the things listed as done in my original post that crippled the UK, it was done by the UK government's own choice and not through a mandatory requirement of EU policy, I know this, because I've researched it, I researched a lot about privatisation as 'state owned and run' (big clue in that) public service providers from the EU competed for contracts of privatised UK services, and like you, many of the agitators blamed EU policy for this, but it's entirely untrue as I found when researching it, the UK government had a choice in every single decision I listed.

[Balinkay]

This is what happens when people legitimise violence on the 1in2 voters who've been labelled racist nazi scum. As pointed out about fry in the pindex videos earlier.

This. A thousand times this.

[stevie harkness]

Also what do you guys think of the milkshakes thrown at people like Farage, Tommy Robinson and Carl Benjamin?

I suppose there's always a chance they've got a lactose intolerance.

[CCTV]

I suppose there's always a chance they've got a lactose intolerance.

Aye more likely their heads cant take a bricking though.

[CCTV]

@CCTV it is national government to blame, over much of the things listed as done in my original post that crippled the UK, it was done by the UK government's own choice and not through a mandatory requirement of EU policy, I know this, because I've researched it, I researched a lot about privatisation as 'state owned and run' (big clue in that) public service providers from the EU competed for contracts of privatised UK services, and like you, many of the agitators blamed EU policy for this, but it's entirely untrue as I found when researching it, the UK government had a choice in every single decision I listed.

I'm guessing your talking about the 1980s and Thatcher ? I've not commented on your piece as a criticism just added to it to show the eu is no different and particularly so these days.

There was a political-economic change in the 1970s that's been seen more steadily since the 80s onwards.
These occupy the various levels of influence whether the national or supra-national bodies.

If you look at the eu and hiring KPMG to report and lead to privatisation it is the same effect at both levels. Increase financial inequality, reduce the wealth portion of poorer persons, transfer wealth to the richest and from state to private holdings. It's quite possible that if you look at societies in tentiles the lowest tenth percent consistently do the worst.

The latest pindex video has a piece where it talks about these new stringent laws for finance and corporates in the eu. Following on from Brexit and other populist scum movements. These new stringent laws will be as effective as the last ones, lip service, the only hope is that post Brexit the EU is trying to save a sinking ship and might actually do something significant. I'm dubious. Suspect it's a face saving exercise before returning to the norm.

The largest described banking system money laundering crisis, 07-15 danske bank, Deutsche bank another example and there are other instances of different scandals endemic across the eu. The 08/09 banking crash should have left the banks go bust, crash and reformed. Money has been pumped into these banks to prevent a reform of the banking system. One commentator saying that 90-95% of the money given to Greece essentially went to banks outside Greece - they gave the Greeks money/debt to pay off debts to foreign banks that should have lost money on such reckless lending. The eu will not permit a private bank to go bust since the euro and its rules and so when they do, they force nations to nationalise debts. Private profits, shared liabilities essentially mandated with the euro currency. This was the EU's Express wish the euro and these rules and they did an awful job of keeping watch over the banks and corporations.
The vw/Audi co2 emissions scandals discovered by the EPA no less, apple tax ruling after Brexit been going on for ages, the scandals in medicine and pharmaceuticals.

Our eu forced private water company, our eu forced fiscal compact. Eu law 1997 iirc, incorporated into Irish law 2012. So now it's not a control from Europe it's a national control introduced and designed by the eu and incorporated by a pathethcially weak government when it comes to dealing with outside authorities.
Not another red cent said the right leaning centrists fg, billions upon billions of brown ones though. The Wikileaks diplomatic cables showed our labour leader saying that their election promises were practically just bollocks to the citizens talk to get elected. Labours way or Frankfurt's way.
Woman labour minister introduced a cut to single mother payments, following years later female suicide matches men in lower ses areas, young mothers aged 18-35 committing suicide at equivalent rates to their Male counterparts is rarely ever seen anywhere. It is thanks to our labour minister in part. I take both side of modern political divides with a pinch of salt.

"So why have the European Commission’s policy makers made privatisation such a central tenet for agreeing to loans to Europe’s indebted countries? The European Commission (EC) in correspondence in 2012 explained it this way: “... privatisation of public companies contributes to the reduction of public debt, as well as to the reduction of subsidies, other transfers or state guarantees to state- owned enterprises. It also has the potential of increasing the efficiency of companies and, by extension, the competitiveness of the economy as a whole, while attracting foreign direct investment.” In other words, privatisation would help countries pay back their debt, would improve the state-owned companies’ efficiency and effectiveness, and therefore would boost economic growth.

But do those arguments stand up in practice? Five years into the economic programmes imposed by the EC, Transnational Institute in its report The Privatisation Industry in Europe decided to examine the evidence. Its conclusions cast serious doubt on the EC’s rationale. It found that the sales of state-owned assets during recession have consistently failed to raise expected revenues. Greece for example was predicted to raise €50 billion but has so far raised a paltry €3.5 billion. This may be partly down to popular and Syriza resistance, but it is also what happens when profitable companies are sold at a time of recession. Greece’s sale of 14 regional airports is typical of how privatisation short-changes taxpayers, as only the profitable ones were sold, leaving the unprofitable ones still subsidised by Greek citizens.

In other austerity-struck countries, share prices of state-owned assets soared as soon as the sale went public, suggesting the set price was far too low. In the case of the airport network AENA in Spain, for example, the price of the shares increased by 20% the first day of going public, which meant a loss of almost 1 billion euros for the Spanish state....."

https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/can-europe-make-it/winners-and-losers-in-eu-s-great-privatisation-fire-sale/

Theres a good bit more in the piece to read.

[redebreck]

Great to see an emapassioned post on the matter. What year was it when you were 12 ? I'm assuming its post joining the eu.

Living in Ireland we have very recently had money to build social housing which we also stopped doing. These council houses were built fairly well and like other industries the worst houses built in the country were in the years of boom before this last bust. In 20 years the same houses where I lived appreciated from 30grand to 330grand. While we've had money to build housing the eu is the major reason why we can't build them. The EU says so and thats that due to agreements made, the EU says collect 13 billion from apple in taxes due and they/government object though eventually concede. This is modern politics within the EU - Note this decade long at the time of ruling in 2016 meaning since 2006 at least was conveniently ruled after Brexit.

Over here the disdain for the state having a foothold in housing is still on the rise, more so in institutions of state, banking and the eu. Today there are schemes out there whereby private companies build houses and they lease them to the council for 10 years, after 10 years the private holder can decide if they want to renew the rental agreement or not, or permit the council tenant to enter into a rent to buy scheme. Needless to say I suspect few will decide to permit the council tenant to rent to buy. The 10 year rental costs are paid up front in a lump sum to the developers. This model of long term leasing is praised as progressive and very German like, yet rarely do they state the model in Germany arose to suit cuntish funds who bought up lots of blocks of property after the end of ww2, giving the cunty funds secured long term tenants. You'd end up with no property at the end but will have paid the cost of the property and more in general over your lifetime. It's part of the inequality drive within the eu and attempts to take property away from common people in attempts to dissuade people from having children. Leaving something for kids is typically done via the family home and savings. In our capital city now there are complaints as new modular housing involves rental costs of €1300 euro for a bedroom smaller in area than a disabled car space and 1 kitchen per 42 residents. Outlawed bed sits were far more humane and cheaper. The minister overseeing this has said this young (dumb as fuck) generation are willing to make sacrifices - his father made 2.3million from tribunals in legal costs the only sector to survive mandated cuts and reform. Disabled children funding that's open game, sna's... over one third of all homeless persosn are children and the fastest demographic for sometime now experiencing homelessness are those aged 0-5.

In the rental market tax initiatives have essentially made the landlord market a two tier system and normal private landlords are selling off en masse and larger vulture funds are buying them up. The vulture funds pay a far smaller portion of what the typical private landlord would pay, so we've reduced the tax intake on rental properties also.
While vulture funds are notoriously cuntish in how the treat tenants, breaking rights and getting around rent caps. Though some people have argued that calling large corporate investment funds 'vulture funds' is a demeaning and inhumane label Cuntish funds will have to do so. Post the crash we set up nama which has been exposed for assisting interests in securing large amounts of property at the lowest prices. The crash was a property grab. Large swathes of properties were intentionally left unoccupied to inflate rental costs (now above boom while wages are lower thsn then with other increases in costs of living) and restore property prices to peak bubble prices.

I've seen posts before where people break down their income and apportion how much of their money goes to taxation. Income tax, duties, levies, vat, dirt, property, car.... typical earners estimate between 70-80% of their income goes to taxation. Its common for big CEO's to pay less income tax than average employees on average wages. The eu as part of their desires mandated the introduction of water charges in Ireland. Previously increases in taxation had been introduced over the last 30-40 years for water management by governments. They tried to bring it in and it is the sole victory against the states/eu's taxation policy in Ireland, led by people (aka populist scum) and not the traditional parties. There was no effort to return the tax increases which had previously been apportioned for water management either, taxed again. While the water network is in a poor state. Just over half of our processed water is lost to leaky pipes. When you factor in daily consumption and use by individuals and industry that's a lot of processed water lost. The first efforts of the private company set up to manage our water network was to spend money on water meters. Buried under the ground and no real access to monitoring consumption like electricity. The company was also critiqued for spending grandly on office furniture and state of the art furnishings. It's been defeated for now, but it'll come back.

The medical industry has been turned into a cash cow for private enterprises in public expenditure. Today people are stagnating on living longer than before and are simply far more likely to be ageing with more illnesses/conditions than before. People are getting sicker. Increasing the market share of dependants for the medical complex industry. Food industry has been turned into a shitshow with sugar and processed foods having taken over the landscape. Diet today is a greater danger to people in terms of developing illnesses and death than smoking, drinking and inactivity combined ! People who think they are eating healthy are often very misguided. Drug trials are very poor and often do not beat simple changes in diet or incorporating a simple brisk 20 minute walk 3 times a week as a counter option or group. Not that such measures are included in trials. Whilst I posted a link earlier which also details how stents were given to people for no medical reason whatsoever. Just stick them in $$. If you look at psychological measures it's the same story. Time is in short supply and stress is endemic. More recently theres been a new finding of increased rates of anxiety disorders, major depressive episodes and suicides since 2009 and largely attributed to social media and smart phones. Its far more prominent for girls than boys and effects the youngest worst say 9-14 year olds. This many systemic errors and mismanagement puts the probability in the court of design/desired rather than accidental/incompetence. In the case of social media/smart phones it was a known consequence by design and hence few in the industry allow either for their own kids. Its psychotic politics.

Whilst realising that jobs would be lost to automation and outsourcing, new meaningless service industry's were created to occupy the time of citizens. Coupled with an increase in consumerism and extended business hours, 24 hour cultures. This is akin to North Korea giving you scissors to cut the grass just so you are busy. Then more buying stuff to increase profits. However in the eu we dont like to see these things as comparable. Reducing work hours, days commuting to work, hours of commerce would simply give citizens more time for living and a reduced carbon footprint. Time to keep a garden - less need for massive logistical efforts and plastics for carrots etc, to socialise, develop a strong community, spend time with their kids or parents etc. Disgusting stuff I know. You might note that all these have declined under the eu membership. People are isolated and literally dying from loneliness. The art of living is dying out.

Brexit has been wonderful for the eu citizens. Dont forget it's the same individuals who typically score highly in the personality trait psychoticism who leave the national scence to become supra-nationalist politicians. Often sent off after having to leave due to incompetence or corruption. Before it could rerun votes, ignore votes and overrule them by parliaments- still a possibility with Brexit unfortunately. But the idea is out there now, it can be abandoned entirely.

The problem over here and elsewhere is people seem to think it's only their national politics that is to blame, put a few of these in an avengers gang and they'll transform into something superior.

The eu is utterly fucked because it lacked a credible leadership structure. It decided to introduce the Euro which has been a disaster, foreseeable too as the Brits called it, and it failed to break the banking system when it needed to be done. The last banking model was abandoned, this one has been pumped up at the expense of Europe and its citizens. The one the little englanders liked.... It had full/er employment, reduced inequality, council and social housing, a far better medical standard of scientific credibility and science more generally, a decent press compared with the one we've witnessed lately..

Ten years on from the banking crash the banks are still in a dire situation and illegal EU money laundering steadily increases. The eu post Brexit vote has started to realise the game is up. Its started to tackle some issues but rather tamely imo. But at least they're making noises if the are only vain pandering. A lot of the eu noises have come off the back of Brexit as they try and regain its lost image. We can thank the Brits for being the first to walk away from this corrupt entity and as a result it is starting even if only pr to acknowledge its fook ups.
Britain is a huge economy in Europe, with a good education system & high quality universities (relatively). The trade works both ways. Needs must and if the eu wants to punish Britain for leaving the gang it'll do so at some expense. See what they said about trump's tariffs and wonder will they seek to damage trade in practically the same manner. It would be hypocritical which isn't beyond the eu, but it's likely just more attempts to coerce people out of Brexit. It's all a bluff they do this consistently where the people vote against the eu institution. Rerun the vote, inflate fear, force conformity. We've seen it over here too with the extra allegation of literally swapping in ballot boxes. The eu doesnt care for the democratic wishes of nation states. They've an appalling record in terms of crashing ahead with their institutional desires irrespective of whether people want them.

The warnings were made after ww2 and they were spot on. A sick political stewardship and a fetish for profiteering at the expense of humanity. This socio-economic-political model has people worried about their kids futures over a variety of reasons. An increasingly sick Man in a sick World by design.

I'd to cut out some of your post and my own to fit it into the post.

Very interesting post, CCTV. Shows a corruption/deterioration in the EU that many people, myself included, aren't fully aware of.
If the UK manages to leave eventually, something many of our politicians seem to be against, I can see other countries/nations following suit.
When it came into being, the Common Market was probably a good concept, but it's evolved into something else.
Financial greed is a common factor in much of what the EU is dealing with.

[CCTV]

The stuff about fishing - I'll bite. You got sources?

Gave you this link earlier about the fish gut carbon cycle mystery, most of the commercially fished fish are the species listed - bony, of which 90% perform this task and increasingly so as oceans warm/acidify.
If you've looked at the fishing documentaries you'll have an idea of the scale of depletion. These fish clean co2 from the sea and help reduce acidification. We've taken a lot from the seas as they are acidifying.
https://www.google.ie/amp/s/phys.org/news/2009-01-fish-guts-marine-carbon-mystery.amp

Found a few links to the topic of corals/atolls that i referenced earlier, Google played ball one day. Probably more for the climate change thread which I'll get back to soon enough.

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/01/27/floating-islands/ Identifies a few issues, concludes at the end about fishing and mining being the 2 biggest threats.

https://www.zmescience.com/ecology/environmental-issues/fishing-ban-in-the-large-coral-reef/amp/
&
http://www.takepart.com/article/2014/07/03/gorgeous-fish-just-might-save-planets-dying-coral-reefs/
This one ^^ is where it looks at the role of the parrot fish and urchins and the importance of grazers in maintaining the reef, muck like savoury's work on land with desertification from the climate thread.

[Nineteenx]

What a circus, there's an interview or rather a question asked of Boris Johnson by a reporter about 12 weeks before the EU referendum, to which he replies leaving the EU would be a disaster. Then he decides to back the leave campaign, not because it was something he was passionate about or felt was right, but because it's an opportunity to play his stupid childish University 'Hustings' games, win the EU ref vote, see Cameron 'The gambler' out of a job and try and move himself into No10. We're all in this ridiculous fucking mess because as usual Tories whose wealth means they're very far removed from the lives of normal people and how what they do affect them or will were playing they're silly little childish in fighting games with the nations future, now the ridiculous Tory party look increasingly like making the clown their next leader

[stevie harkness]

Boris for PM has been on the cards for a while. Another British PM the public didn't vote for, but hey that's democracy.

Funny how the first round of voting got rid of all the women and non Oxford graduates, except Javid.

[redebreck]

Boris for PM has been on the cards for a while. Another British PM the public didn't vote for, but hey that's democracy.

Funny how the first round of voting got rid of all the women and non Oxford graduates, except Javid.

What a fecking nightmare - Boris Johnsone UK PM and Donald Trump USA President.
How much worse can it get?

It's a conspiracy, I tell you.
Be interesting to see what happens with BREXIT, seeing how Boris was one of the major protagonists.

[CCTV]

What a fecking nightmare - Boris Johnsone UK PM and Donald Trump USA President.
How much worse can it get?

It's a conspiracy, I tell you.
Be interesting to see what happens with BREXIT, seeing how Boris was one of the major protagonists.

I think the world is a bit safer with trump in office over Clinton.

In the last few weeks trump has said he's under pressure from the military industrial complex to take action in Iran. This week he explained his decision to step down military strikes, how he couldn't justify killing 150 Iranians in those strikes for the shooting down of an unmanned drone.

Trump could be the first American president in this century to not start a new conflict zone !! Seems to be using economic sanctions to do the work of forcing people to the table, which isn't exactly the most moral means of beginning dialogues. But it's a lot better than bomb and burn policies.

Bizarrely the most anti-war in Iran voice (to the best of my knowledge) in mainstream American media was Tucker Carlson on FOX NEWS !!
The traditional left wing media over there seem to be attacking trump for not taking enough military action.

[stevie harkness]

Trump's 'restraint' on calling off the attack didn't ring true to me. One day he calls it off because it would be "disproportionate" and the next day he's threatening to "obliterate" Iran. That's disproportionate. I call bullshit.

It would be ironic if he was the first president in decades not to go to war but I'm sure that he doesn't want that label and it will only act as a spur to drive him on, especially with an election looming...

If he calls off another attack he'll look like a pussy and he doesn't want that. So rather than having a cool headed president with restraint we've got a clown who's painting himself into a corner.

That said, things with North Korea seem more hopeful. Is love to know the story on that

[CCTV]

Trump's 'restraint' on calling off the attack didn't ring true to me. One day he calls it off because it would be "disproportionate" and the next day he's threatening to "obliterate" Iran. That's disproportionate. I call bullshit.

It would be ironic if he was the first president in decades not to go to war but I'm sure that he doesn't want that label and it will only act as a spur to drive him on, especially with an election looming...

If he calls off another attack he'll look like a pussy and he doesn't want that. So rather than having a cool headed president with restraint we've got a clown who's painting himself into a corner.

That said, things with North Korea seem more hopeful. Is love to know the story on that

No doubt theres an egotism and prestige to preserve. If not being labelled a war monger means he doenst start another war, ain't that welcome progress.

He certainly uses the threat of war or 'humanitarian based intervention' (as it's often pushed as) to force discussions and backed by economic sanctions.
While you can critique this approach it appears effective. Certainly more constructive than another campaign of peace and freedom bombs.

He wont look weak or like a pussy if he doesnt go into Iran. The American people on both sides are fed up with these wars/interventions.
There are others on fox who portray this message which seems to be extensive in the left wing legacy media. But American people are at odds with this opinion.
There are numerous independent media personnas on the left and right who oppose the idea.

[CCTV]

The big fear pro-trump was that he'd have access to the nuclear codes. Now hes been critiqued as weak in the same media for not starting a war/intervention.

[stevie harkness]

I wasn't suggesting he's a pussy for not going into Iran. But he'll look like one if he keeps posturing and bragging and threatening and then not going in. Just be cool. You'll get your peace prize just like Barack did.

A while back I mentioned a list of seven countries allegedly leaked by a retired US general, it included Iraq and Afghanistan. This was before Libya and Syria but it mentioned those, and so it came to pass, also on the list were Iran and Sudan? I think. But sure enough they have been slowly but surely ticking them off one by one...